new pics of 4 door cuda

[AARTA340]

The zeros were intentional Dave said because there NEVER WAS A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA that used codes that represented door frame colors.  Think of it this way, there were no "door frames" on the 2 door barracudas or challengers.  The door panels were full panels unlike the B bodies that had upper door pads or painted areas where the hard backed door panels did not cover.

Thanks for the explanation, but there was not a BH41 either, so thought if one is gonna add one non existent code the others would match. Still a cool project.

[JS27N0B]

The zeros were intentional Dave said because there NEVER WAS A FOUR DOOR BARRACUDA that used codes that represented door frame colors.  Think of it this way, there were no "door frames" on the 2 door barracudas or challengers.  The door panels were full panels unlike the B bodies that had upper door pads or painted areas where the hard backed door panels did not cover.

That's very strange logic. If you go so far as to have a BH41 on the fender tag, and then build the car so that it does indeed have upper door frames, it stands to reason there should be a paint code for the upper door frames on the fender tag. Possibly a simple oversight, but very easy to make a new tag. Also very strange picking a 340 for the Powertrain in a BH car. 383 2bbl with a/c would have been expected, or a 318 but as long as Dave has hit all his personal marks, that is all that matters..
Looking forward to seeing the fully completed anommaly.

[resq302]

That's very strange logic......

There isn't too much about the project that doesn't exude strange logic.  The fender tag uses bogus numbers that never would have been found on a normal tag, along with a proof tooling tag that would not have been used along side a regular production tag.  It appears that Dave has been consistent in making everything strange & inconsistent.   

[resq302]

That's very strange logic. If you go so far as to have a BH41 on the fender tag, and then build the car so that it does indeed have upper door frames, it stands to reason there should be a paint code for the upper door frames on the fender tag.

I talked to Dave earlier about the controversy around the fender tag and the 000 codes.  Here is what he had to say:

"Consider the source. Those are some of the same guys who tried to find fault in everything I said or did. Their recent comments about "strange logic" actually exposes their ignorance regarding body codes and encrypted options. They incorrectly assumed that there should be a separate code on the Fender Tag that expresses the door frame blackout. The BH41 is the specific code that calls for the blackout treatment.

Consider a BS23 Cuda for instance. Where is the code on the fender tag that calls out the blackout treatment on the rear tail panel? The BS23 body code spells out that the rear tail panel had blackout paint. There was no need to be redundant with a separate code on the fender tag. The same Chrysler logic applies to our BH41 Code. Chrysler obviously never had such a body code so we decided that the door frames would use a mandatory door blackout feature for that particular body style. The BH41 specifies that the door frames will incorporate a black out treatment."

[AARTA340]

Thanks for getting Dave involved in this discussion. He may have commented on the wrong code or I am still missing something. BH, (B) designates Barracuda, (H) high price class and the 41 stands for four door sedan, unless I am missing something. The three 0's are for the same color door frames and corresponding digits would point to a different color. I am not one of the nay sayers, I think he has done an awesome job on a true one of one car!!!

Keep the progress of this project coming, I am loving it!

[resq302]

Thanks for getting Dave involved in this discussion. He may have commented on the wrong code or I am still missing something. BH, (B) designates Barracuda, (H) high price class and the 41 stands for four door sedan,.....

I don't think Dave missed anything.  The cuda's and the challengers did not have any paint codes for the upper door frames because they utilized a full plastic door panel unlike the B bodies which either had a colored upper door pad or a painted upper door frame.  The door panels that will be utilized on the 4 door cuda will have full door panels like the 2 door versions from what I have been told. 

Think of it this way, the tail panel of the 'cuda would have been blacked out yet there was no code for that on the fender tag because it was part of the "package" of the BS23 body code.  Same as the tail panel on an R/T Challenger would have been blacked out.  Check out any 4 door car today, particulaly the new charger.  The window frames on them are all blacked out and I highly doubt that there is any codes to blacken them out since it is part of the body package.

[JS27N0B]

I talked to Dave earlier about the controversy around the fender tag and the 000 codes.  Here is what he had to say:

"Consider the source. Those are some of the same guys who tried to find fault in everything I said or did. Their recent comments about "strange logic" actually exposes their ignorance regarding body codes and encrypted options. They incorrectly assumed that there should be a separate code on the Fender Tag that expresses the door frame blackout. The BH41 is the specific code that calls for the blackout treatment.

Consider a BS23 Cuda for instance. Where is the code on the fender tag that calls out the blackout treatment on the rear tail panel? The BS23 body code spells out that the rear tail panel had blackout paint. There was no need to be redundant with a separate code on the fender tag. The same Chrysler logic applies to our BH41 Code. Chrysler obviously never had such a body code so we decided that the door frames would use a mandatory door blackout feature for that particular body style. The BH41 specifies that the door frames will incorporate a black out treatment."

You know, I was sorry when Dave left as he had a lot of knowledge he was sharing with everybody . But the way I read that reply, it was from an ignoramus whom I'm glad is gone. I'm not going to comment any further as to an upper door frame, as e bodies don't have them, that is why the code is 000, they are frameless.
I am also done ordering parts from ECS, I know he doesn't care as I'm only one person, but that is how it starts.

Resq302, you sir like to stir the pot. I haven't decided if in fact you might be an alias for Dave as you sure are awfully fond of him. 

I could say a lot more and be a lot more nasty, but alas this is the internet.

[resq302]

Resq302, you sir like to stir the pot. I haven't decided if in fact you might be an alias for Dave as you sure are awfully fond of him. 

How is what I said about explaining the 000 code for the paint color for the upper door frame "stirring the pot" ?  You yourself before said that "If you go so far as to have a BH41 on the fender tag, and then build the car so that it does indeed have upper door frames, it stands to reason there should be a paint code for the upper door frames on the fender tag."   yet your most recent post you said that E bodies would be 000 because they were frameless.  Two door B bodies are also frameless cars too, yet they received an upper door frame color code.  The difference between the E bodies and the B bodies was that the E bodies utilized a full plastic door panel and not the heavy cardboard backing vinyl covered door panels that the B bodies used that only covered the majority of the door frame.  Bottom line is the 3 zeros have nothing too do with the outer door frames.  They designate that the interior door panels are one piece units and do not have a painted section that accompanies the panel.  The doors on the interior of this 4 door concept will have full door panels and no paint with them from what Dave has indicated.  You criticize the logic concerning the content of the fender tag, suggest that he had an oversight with its information, and think I'm the pot stirrer?  You were wrong with your assumptions.  If you can't take the heat, stay out if the kitchen.

I am by no way an alias of Dave's.  I am in NJ and he is out in MO.  I consider him a friend as I talk to him quite a bit, however, I have never met him.  If I ever have to go out that way, I would love to see his shop / business as I'm sure it is way bigger than I can imagine with all the products and services his company does.

I am hoping to make a day trip out to Carlisle.  I don't know if you plan on being there or not but if you'd like, maybe we can discuss this further in person since you do not want to be nasty on the computer (which I respect due to this being a family site).

[resq302]

Thanks for getting Dave involved in this discussion. ......

Here is a better explanation about that 3 zeros that Dave posted on another forum :

They are confusing the door frames with the window frames. There are 3 zeros on the fender tag because the interior door panel is a complete one piece unit that covers the entire inner door frame structure. Those numbers DO NOT reference the window frames. There is no numeric code (other than zeros) on my fender tag because the interior door frame is completely covered by the custom door panel. A 2 Door Barracuda never had window frames. Our BH41 designates a 4 Door Barracuda with window frames. I think that's pretty simple logic!

Consistent to the way Chrysler coded their vehicles, we decided that the BH41 Body Code would incorporate a mandatory black out scheme on the window frames. This is similar to the blackout on the tail panel of a BS23 Cuda. You won't find a fender tag code designating that particular black out feature either. You also won't find a fender tag code for the black out on the radiator core support, the top of the cowl panel or the lower pinch well areas.


Hope this clears it up a bit.

[resq302]

Looks like Dave posted some more pics and elaborated on the reason the code 000 is used for the cars on another site.

Here are a few pictures to further clarify the 000 code on the Fender Tag. You can see how the Door Panels completely cover the interior Door Frames. No part of the Door Frames will have a different paint color. The "full" Door Panels will be covered in vinyl and the interior Door Frames will not be seen when these are installed. The exterior Window Frames would not have been referenced by that 3 digit (Fender Tag) interior code. The black out color for the window framing is specified by the BH41 Body code.

[YYZ]

I'll preface my response with 2 comments:

1.  IMHO it's a very interesting exercise to build out a 'what might have been' Barracuda 4-door and I enjoy the updates and appreciate the craftsmanship going into its construction.

2.  Few would dispute the owner's many positive contributions to the hobby including bringing needed, new reproduction parts to market, raising the bar on others and going for new frontiers in OE judging.

However, that does not grant him a monopoly on all knowledge in the hobby, nor to belittle and bash others who raise innocuous questions or observations about the build and approach.

With respect to the upper door frame color code, to an outside observer there are:

- door frames/window frames that the 2 doors do not have
- they are painted a color (2 in this case - satin black on the outside and red on the inside)
- an established Chrysler convention that a paint code appears on the tag for the above

Rather than simply stating 'I intend to finish the inside of the door with a full panel, so I believe that keeping the 000 paint code is correct', he begins by dismissing the question and denigrating the other posters e.g. "...clueless cretin..." "...consider the source..."  "...ignorant..." "...incorrectly assume..." etc. and then goes into semantics about door frame color vs. window frame color, a distinction that Chrysler did not make.

Chrysler did indeed put a non-000 upper door frame paint code on 4-door B-bodies.  As the builder stated that the doors and hardware are derived from a 4-door B-body, then it should follow that his tag is coded appropriately.  Note: those same 4-door B-bodies used a panel that covered the door shell as well.


As to the exterior blackout on the door frames, asking the question is legitimate as a) there is no evident code and b) Chrysler did not black out exterior window frames back in the day -- they were either body color or had an optional garnish molding.

Again, a better response would have been 'I decided that this was to be a standard feature of the BH41 package, and the specifications of my BH41 package are as follows...upper door frame Organosol, etc. etc.'

The logic on stating that it's akin to the tail blackout on a BS23 is fine, if those specs are common knowledge.  Why bash people for asking about an observable fact?

It would also raise the question about the paint treatment if the car didn't have a vinyl roof, or if a different color of roof were specified.  The builder may wish to treat his spec list like a Superbird - V1X only and that solves the problem.

Lastly, as for the 340 in a BH car, a number of '70s did escape the factory with 340s in them, though theoretically they were not available.


To summarize, my comments are not meant in any way to diminish the build or builder, but to suggest a less antagonistic approach to questions raised by fellow enthusiasts, many of whom are as excited to see the car done as he is (myself included).

Looking forward to the final assembly

[Fred]

So anyway, making a 4 door is really cool and I am enjoying the pics.  Super work!

With that said, if there is a next year model, I would make the back door lower at the top rear, since thats part of the original design that is attractive.  Smaller people would usually ride in back.

[turbo224]

I've already posted this in the thread before, but forget the haters and critics. You are building YOUR interpretation of what a 4 door Cuda would have looked like had Chrysler built one. I happen to think it's great. Others are certainly entitled to their opinion as to how they would do it different, but that would be THEIR interpretation. Public forums are a place for discussing ideas and opinions, but I will never understand why so many people insist on being so negative. I applaud your craftsmanship and ingenuity in building this project, you are truly a gifted designer and fabricator. Thank you for continuing to build the car and post updates on the forum despite having your hard work constantly questioned. 

[djw383]

Most people could not even draw the concept never mind bring it to sheet metal reality....great job!

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[turbo224]

It's comical how some of you try to lecture me about the correctness of a vehicle that was never actually built by Chrysler.  By all means, build your own if what we are doing is incorrect. 

This sentence sums it up perfectly. Well said.