Author Topic: Rust In Frame Rail (Read 13858 times)

tommyg29 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 02, 2014 - 08:17:07 AM »

Quote from: Topcat on December 01, 2014 - 07:27:41 PM

Bad news to hear about your frame rails.

So possibly something you can do to see what the inside of the frames look like, is to use an engine telescoping visual tool.

Those are generally used by engine builders. Perhaps you know a shop or engine builder and ask if you can use it for a little while.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-67979.html

Ive used similar USB cameras that plug into your laptop. They cost about $30 on ebay, but Im guessing the inside isnt any better.

anlauto · « **Reply #31 on:** December 02, 2014 - 08:37:20 AM »

This car is a classic case of why I've always said it should be all or nothing when it comes to investing in a restoration project. Here we have a clear case of a beautiful car built on rusty bones. The guy obviously spent money on nice body and paint, new mechanicals, interior etc... but neglected to start where it matters most.

When restored, this car like any other, should have been stripped to a bare shell, sandblasted and ALL the rust issues addressed properly before spending any money making it "look" pretty.

Even now, by scrapping one area of the frame rail and finding holes, repairing them only to find more holes six inches away...is not the best way to do it. I've said it a hundred times in other threads where I see someone doing rust repairs on a small section at a time without properly stripping the whole car....you're just wasting your time.

In the case of this very sharp looking Cuda, I think you have no other choice now to patch up whatever you find and plow on another thick coat of undercoating

polarbear123 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 02, 2014 - 10:08:07 AM »

I thought I did my due diligence before buying this car. I bought it from a used car dealer called Southern motors in Clarkston MI. I asked for the name of the guy who restored it. They did not want to give it to me at first, they said it was their policy not to. It was a guy in Ohio who said that he had been restoring cars for 20 years. I asked if it had any problems he said it didn�t. He told me he sold it to Southern Motors at Carlisle. I thought why would he lie to me he had already sold it. I also paid to have it inspected.

When I got it there were a bunch of things wrong with it.
The 440 was a J code from a truck. I had it rebuilt to 500 HP (Southern motors told me it had a mild rebuild NOT)
Wipers did not work they had mixture of 2 speed and 3 speed parts.
Had to replace the switch in steering column
It had an overdrive 4 speed, replaced it with a 4 speed
I will get this fixed eventialy and will never sell it but where and who to trust? This was my dream car for 40 years.

I ordered a 1974 Cuda from the dealer when I was 22 but never got it. I got a call from the dealer after waiting 7 weeks and was told it had been discontinued.

burdar · « **Reply #33 on:** December 02, 2014 - 10:11:08 AM »

Start scraping off ALL of the undercoating. That way you know what needs to be fixed. A good shop could probably install completely new frame rails and only damage the paint in the trunk. That could be easily resprayed.

anlauto · « **Reply #34 on:** December 02, 2014 - 10:21:39 AM »

That's an extreme way of fixing it that would only lead to a huge can of worms.

All is not lost here, the car looks and I presume runs great....Just have the rust fixed with some patches, undercoat it and DRIVE THE WHEELS off of it...

acudadude · « **Reply #35 on:** December 02, 2014 - 12:16:57 PM »

Polarbear got some frame patches some 12 years ago from
http://www.autobodyspecialt.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?display=home

There in CT and the patches worked good on a 70 cuda i was restoring at the time.Iam sure the parts got better by now in fitment to the body.

Edison1970 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 02, 2014 - 06:09:28 PM »

I would agree with Alan. Replacing the frame rails will require some work. Patching them will be easier and you can always replace them later.
A friend of mine just bought a 65 Elcamino. Shipped from Texas. The car looks ok. He got it from a dealer that sells "restored" cars. I think the word "restored" has a different meaning than it did years ago.

daaboots · « **Reply #37 on:** January 30, 2015 - 01:16:24 PM »

I'm running into issues with my rear frame rails as well. Every place where a brackets is welded to the rail, there is rust holes underneath. My plan is to have the rails blasted, cut out the rust, and put in some patches. I'm also going to remove the trunk pan (it's a rusty mess) and blast the inside of the rails as well. Then I'll seal it all with some POR15. I know how you feel though... it's terribly discouraging.

This picture is looking through a hole cut through the floor near the driver side wheel well, right up near the mounting point for the leaf springs.

Let us know how you make out!

tommyg29 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 30, 2015 - 01:59:05 PM »

Putting bondo on a structural member is just plain fraud in my opinion

HP_Cuda · « **Reply #39 on:** January 30, 2015 - 02:13:51 PM »

I wish I couldn't comment on this thread but after replacing both front frame rails in my current project I can give you some pointers.

1) Find a shop with a good rack which can ensure a good job when replacing rails one at a time. If the shop does not have the specs I believe there is some frame specs on this board which I saw not long ago.

2) I already had my kmember setup with motor so it wasn't so easy to just give him my kmember for alignment purposes. Yes the specs can handle a certain amount of this but guess what every kmember is a little bit different. I had another BB kmember provided so he could finish up and I had to deal with the fallout. I would recommend that you give him the kmember off the car when they are almost done with the rail replacement so they can double check their work.

3) Patching rails is not a great idea because usually once they go they are gone. Additionally you don't want to chase rust patches all the way down the rail - getting a camera if you believe the rust is isolated otherwise plan to replace the whole thing.

I completely understand how you feel after getting this car. Once someone bondos over a problem and sells it to you - it will encourage

Stick with it and you'll be fine.

B

ToxicWolf · « **Reply #40 on:** January 30, 2015 - 03:28:39 PM »

It is unfortunate that there are restoration shops like that out there, but they do exist. Sorry to hear about your problems. The only way to really know the condition of a car is to do the restoration ourselves.

Falbz · « **Reply #41 on:** January 30, 2015 - 06:35:27 PM »

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 30, 2015 - 02:13:51 PM

I wish I couldn't comment on this thread but after replacing both front frame rails in my current project I can give you some pointers.

1) Find a shop with a good rack which can ensure a good job when replacing rails one at a time. If the shop does not have the specs I believe there is some frame specs on this board which I saw not long ago.

2) I already had my kmember setup with motor so it wasn't so easy to just give him my kmember for alignment purposes. Yes the specs can handle a certain amount of this but guess what every kmember is a little bit different. I had another BB kmember provided so he could finish up and I had to deal with the fallout. I would recommend that you give him the kmember off the car when they are almost done with the rail replacement so they can double check their work.

3) Patching rails is not a great idea because usually once they go they are gone. Additionally you don't want to chase rust patches all the way down the rail - getting a camera if you believe the rust is isolated otherwise plan to replace the whole thing.

I completely understand how you feel after getting this car. Once someone bondos over a problem and sells it to you - it will encourage

Stick with it and you'll be fine.

B

Great advice about the k member - most would overlook that when repairing rails

Denison636 · « **Reply #42 on:** January 30, 2015 - 11:39:33 PM »

I used a product called safe-t-cap. You cut out the bad metal and leave about 1/2"-3/4" lip then bolt it line it what ever it takes to line it up then it welds in. I put one in on my left front/ drivers side front. Mine looked like battery acid got it. Also check your widow seal and trunk seal. If they leak the water goes straight for the frame.

Topcat · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2015 - 12:03:22 AM »

If you decide on putting some type of rust preventitive inside the frame rails, you need to recess it away from any areas you are spot welding floor pans on top of.

I did that and it became difficult at times to get nice welds.
The burning paint fumes negate the argon from keeping the area clean for good adhesion.

Mig welders don't like paint.

this works well. Rust Fighter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-Automotive-8891-RUST-FIGHTER-I-AMBER-QUART-1-Quart-/330957879939?hash=item4d0ea07a83&item=330957879939&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr#ht_656wt_662

You spray into the frame rails after all the metal work is done thru a long tube.

Challenger in NC · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2015 - 01:19:47 AM »

Quote from: polarbear123 on December 02, 2014 - 10:08:07 AM

I thought I did my due diligence before buying this car. I bought it from a used car dealer called Southern motors in Clarkston MI. I asked for the name of the guy who restored it. They did not want to give it to me at first, they said it was their policy not to. It was a guy in Ohio who said that he had been restoring cars for 20 years. I asked if it had any problems he said it didn�t. He told me he sold it to Southern Motors at Carlisle. I thought why would he lie to me he had already sold it. I also paid to have it inspected.

When I got it there were a bunch of things wrong with it.
The 440 was a J code from a truck. I had it rebuilt to 500 HP (Southern motors told me it had a mild rebuild NOT)
Wipers did not work they had mixture of 2 speed and 3 speed parts.
Had to replace the switch in steering column
It had an overdrive 4 speed, replaced it with a 4 speed
I will get this fixed eventialy and will never sell it but where and who to trust? This was my dream car for 40 years.

I ordered a 1974 Cuda from the dealer when I was 22 but never got it. I got a call from the dealer after waiting 7 weeks and was told it had been discontinued.

Polarbear, did you deal with a guy named David Nitt or maybe it's Witt? Anybody considering a vehicle from Southern Motors should beware. I too bought my car from them and asked them a series of questions, mostly about the body condition, especially rust. He of course claimed the body was rust free, which it was not. During my inspection, I spotted some hack repairs and a few other warning signs and I should have walked away, but being extremely anxious to get a car and at the time it did not look that bad. That was back in '04 and I am still in the process of tearing the body down! My car also had some "new" looking undercoating sprayed in certain areas which I plan to strip when I send my car to the blasters shortly.

Author Topic: Rust In Frame Rail (Read 13858 times)

tommyg29

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

anlauto

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

polarbear123

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

burdar

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

anlauto

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acudadude

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

Edison1970

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

daaboots

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

tommyg29

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HP_Cuda

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

ToxicWolf

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

Falbz

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

Denison636

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

Topcat

Re: Rust In Frame Rail

Challenger in NC

Re: Rust In Frame Rail