Author Topic: Cut and buff costs?  (Read 3206 times)

Offline jleveille

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Cut and buff costs?
« on: March 07, 2015 - 12:47:38 PM »
Has anyone had someone come out to you and color sand and buff a base clear paint job? I have never done it so I would prefer a pro do it correctly. I did wet sand the clear once with 600 and applied three more coats of clear so there is plenty to work with. Cost I could expect?
Thanks
Jeff
1973 Cuda 340 4-speed with A/C project




Offline Rich G

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015 - 01:46:26 PM »
There won't be much clear on if you keep sanding with 600! It would probably cost a fortune if you could even find someone to do it I'm guessing. Kevin Tietz with Eastwood has a very good video called Paintucation that shows you how to do it. It takes a bit of practice but if you take your time its not that hard. Just watch those edges! The sharpie tip works great.

Offline twalker

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015 - 02:30:03 PM »
I did mine myself, big job - time consuming, but very rewarding.  Watch the paintucation video and a few on YouTube, sharpie is a great tip as is pinstripe tape on the edges before you sand.  1000, 1500,2000 grit then buy the 3m three step system, it comes with the three compounds and wheels you will need.  Excellent kit

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015 - 02:35:00 PM »
When your done stop on over and do NIKKI.  :bigsmile:   :smilielol:
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Offline jleveille

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015 - 02:53:14 PM »
I did mine myself, big job - time consuming, but very rewarding.  Watch the paintucation video and a few on YouTube, sharpie is a great tip as is pinstripe tape on the edges before you sand.  1000, 1500,2000 grit then buy the 3m three step system, it comes with the three compounds and wheels you will need.  Excellent kit

The body and paint was a lot of work but I am up for it. Just afraid to burn through and have to fix it. LOL I do have extra base and clear if need be.
Jeff
1973 Cuda 340 4-speed with A/C project

Offline twalker

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015 - 02:57:39 PM »
Best advice I can give from experience is try the trunk first.  Flat and easy to get the hang of it.  If the worst happens you can respray the piece.  Hopefully it doesn't come to that :-)

Offline mopar jack

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015 - 03:32:46 PM »
I would call a paint shop for estimates and shop around. I live in the S. F. bay area and there's  a guy who does  show car  complete paint restoration. Starts around $1500 and keeps the car about a week. You can do it yourself you will need to understand the differrent steps and what you are trying to accomplish. A lot of people don't cut and polish a car after paint but if it has orange peel I would.

Offline plumcrazzy

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015 - 08:43:29 PM »
Do it yourself---not that hard---just takes a little time and some investment in the proper equipment. Go slow--take your time--don't rush. Wet sand with 1500 then 1800 then 2000 then 2500 if you want to go that far. Use a little dish soap in the water bucket that you dunk your paper in and wrap the paper around a solid rubber block and sand in all directions but never in a circular motion. Use a sponge in your off hand to keep some flushing water running across the area you are sanding or use a very slow water flow from a hose---this keeps all the debris flushed away. I use a lambswool pad with compound to cut the clear to a soft sheen finish--go slow--let the machine do the work--be careful around edges and sharp bends in the sheet metal--tape does help here. Next I use a foam pad with machine glaze compound to bring up the gloss. Finally I use a fresh foam pad with Meguairs swirl remover to make the paint look three feet deep. Use a good brand name of products--there are lots of them out there and use the entire line of recommended products for the best results. Very few things you can do to your car will give you the same gratification that buffing and polishing your own paint to a beautiful finish and now you know how to do the job. :ylsuper:

Offline jleveille

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015 - 09:12:11 AM »
Thanks plumcrazzy, I have quite a few dirt nibs in the clear. Do you think it would be better if I started with 1000?
Jeff
1973 Cuda 340 4-speed with A/C project

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015 - 09:17:23 AM »
All good comments here, I have done a few small pieces with good results. I can say to not skip any steps.

Start with 1500, they even go to 2500-3000grit if I remember right. The finer you can get the paper, the easier it will buff to a shine. Spend time sanding or spend time buffing. Like they said, watch those edges, and don't put much pressure at all on the machine.
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Offline anlauto

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015 - 09:35:01 AM »
It's been my experience That mobile guys or companies that do cut/polish won't take responsibility for cutting through anyways, because they don't know how much clear is on the car etc... 
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Offline 4Cruizn

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015 - 12:48:58 PM »
I paid to have mine done . . . $600-800 I believe is what I paid.   :cheers:

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2015 - 01:37:30 PM »
Thanks plumcrazzy, I have quite a few dirt nibs in the clear. Do you think it would be better if I started with 1000?


Go around the car putting little tape flags next to all the problem spots...

If the dirt nibs are truly in the clear only they may cut out but if they are in the color coat you'll break through... Decide now if you can live with a tiny off color speck...

I tend to start with a few easy flaws to get a feel for the paint, how it's cured, does it cut good or does it clog the paper?  Or is it already hard as a rock....

On the minor flaws use nothing more aggressive than 1200, best to start with 1500, when you get to the bigger flaws you might jump to 1000 but testing on the minor flaws should give you an idea of how things are cutting...

When cutting out the flaws I use a 1"x2" oak block being careful not to dig the edges in, you want to cut the high spot flat with minimal cutting of the surrounding paint..

Back to those bigger nibs, if you cut them flat but theres still a dark spot I don't keep sanding, you'll cut through & have to respray the panel... So cut it flat & look hard at the spot... I've used a dental pick & dug stuff out in the past, if it's just in the clear you can usually pop out the defect & fill the cavity with catalyzed clear then come back in a few days & cut it flat again....

Any fisheyes? If so I've had pretty good success using that dental pick to rough up the bottom of the crater then fill the hole with catalyzed clear...  In both of these filling operations I prefer to use a small syringe to inject the clear, you can dab the paint with a brush but the syringe really does a good job getting the paint down to the bottom of the flaw & forcing any trapped air out of the repair...   Same deal let the clear cure for a few days before attempting to go further...

One thing to keep in mind however.. While your waiting for the repairs to cure the rest of the paint is also curing further & some paints get very hard to work with as they cure...

So what I will do is work on the good areas, get them cut somewhat flat & ready for buffing ..

Now something to consider.. How good is your bodywork? Cause if you cut the paint absolutely flat it will highlight any flaws...  Leaving a slight peel will tend to hide any ripples...

Ok, that said first lap if you want flat I use Mequiers 1500 wrapped around a paint stir stick, Oh, before I forget let the paper and stir stick soak in your water bucket for a couple hours , it soften the paper reducing the chance of gouging the paint...

Oh also the water & the bucket must be sparkling clean any bits of dirt will attach to the paint and will dig into your fresh paint... DAMHIK... BTW a few drops of dish soap helps keep things cutting cleanly.. Reduces the paint sticking to the paint...

On the stick, I cut it down about 1/2"-3/4" shorter than my paper & sand the edges dull & rounded also to reduce the chances of gouging the paint

Ok with the 1500 wrapped around your stir stick I usually start on the top surfaces because a) it's easier but more importantly b) there tends to be more material because the painter knows it isn't as likely to run..

So pick a direction & stick to it, with 1500, a little soapy water & patience... Start with a few passes then use a little  squeegee  to see what you've got, High spots will be flat & low spots will be shiny.. You can keep sanding till the whole area is 100% flat or you can choose to live with a little ripple knowing it will look a ton better than it did the day it came out of the booth & it will help hide any flaws...  Yeah, your gonna make it flat, I thought so... :roflsmiley: 

Oh, one big important tip.. Listen to the sound as your sanding, If you hear a change maybe a higher pitch, stop immediately & check your paper, you might have a bit of dirt It will cause scratches which can be allot of extra work to try & fix...

Ok, once you have the whole car cut open with 1500 you can come back with Mequiers 2000 & change cutting direction.. Your only looking to cut the sanding scratches out, it won't take allot....

Now a short cut that works really well especially if you plan to leave some peel to hide flaws... 3M Trizact DA color sanding paper.... It can be used from the beginning if your leaving some peel or it can be used for the second cut if your wanting a flat show job...  You won't need more than 2-3 sheets to do a lap of the whole car... If your skipping the flat stick get 3 sheets of 1500 & 3 sheets of 2000... If you want to really save on buffing get 3 sheets or 2500...

The Trizact is used wet, keep your bucket & sponge handy...  Trizact takes a special backing pad so if your only doing one car you might not want to bother but on the other hand once you buy it you own it & your time has to be worth something...

So you've got your backing pad on your DA, you've got your Trizact paper & your bucket of soapy water with a sponge... Just let the DA do it's thing very little pressure mostly just hold on to the sander & let it float around.... Squeegee areas to see your progress, this method will produce results comparable to what most good/better body shops consider a show job...

Ok it's polishing time... This will get agrument from many guys but the first cut should be done with a wool cutting pad, it cuts cleaner, cooler & faster than a foam waffle pad...   Of the currently available products I like 3M 6061 Perfect-it Polishing compound...   Low speed 6-800 rpms, be very careful not to dig an edge, buff off edges not into edges or you will burn the paint.... Might be a good idea to stay away from the edges entirely, they can be buffed pretty quickly by hand...
Keep the buffer moving, light pressure, Do one panel then clean the pad, After you've cut the car once with a wool cutting pad I prefer a wool polishing pad next but foam can do a good job too... So this application will be more 6160 & a wool polishing pad...
Next step I use a Porter Cable 7424 polisher, a Mequiers Burgundy Foam Cutting Pad & more 6160...  This step should not be skipped your cutting the swirls left by the circular buffer... You need the circular cutting to effectively bring back the shine but now you need the random action of the DA polisher to give you a swirl free shine..

At this point I would stop & assemble most of the car..

Ok you've cut to 6160 & a Burgundy cutting pad, next 6160 & a Mequiers Beige Foam Finishing Pad... Things should be looking amazing by now but bringing that final depth & shine before wax is essential, why come all this way then drop the ball? 

Ok last couple steps before wax, Beige Foam Finishing Pad & Meguiars Mirror Glaze - Fine Cut Cleaner And one more lap,  Beige Foam Finishing Pad &  Meguiars Ultra Finishing Polish....  Wax it & enjoy....

Yeah it's a lot of steps & it takes time but it's your time spent with your toy...
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Offline roadman5312

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015 - 02:08:25 PM »
      Wow Wild R/T, excellent advice. I'm saving this to give to our painter.  Thanks   :2thumbs:

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Cut and buff costs?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015 - 02:25:21 PM »
It's allot of work & allot of time but the results will give you something to be proud of...  :2thumbs:
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...