elec fan/shroud and alt choice?

[footin70rt]

I have a 22" radiator in my Challenger with a 383. I am using a electric fan from a 04 Jeep Liberty. Don't remember the exact specs but I do know it pulls well over 300 cfm. The fan is a 18" S blade design and the shroud portion is 22" wide. I cut down the top and bottom to fit the core and used rubber molding to seal the top and bottom. I also run an adjustable thermostatic controlled fan switch that I have set to 200*F and a manual override switch in the car. Mainly use the override switch at the track to cool the car down after a run in the staging lanes.

Sorry I don't have any pics right now, we just moved and the car is in storage.

[AussieMark]

Heavy duty trucks (all), decent performance cars (Skyline GT/R, Supra RZ) and real 4x4's (LandCruiser , Patrol) all use engine driven viscous (clutch) fans for a reason electric fans are not good enough, they are fine for front wheel drive (no choice) and for cooling air conditioning condensers and the insides of computers but not much else. Best put the set up Chrysler fitted to the air conditioned and maximum cooling package vehicles large radiator, viscous fan, shroud and hood seal. Electric fans are great to save a few HP on a weak car but Mopars have plenty of power so why bother?

[72bluNblu]

Heavy duty trucks (all), decent performance cars (Skyline GT/R, Supra RZ) and real 4x4's (LandCruiser , Patrol) all use engine driven viscous (clutch) fans for a reason electric fans are not good enough, they are fine for front wheel drive (no choice) and for cooling air conditioning condensers and the insides of computers but not much else. Best put the set up Chrysler fitted to the air conditioned and maximum cooling package vehicles large radiator, viscous fan, shroud and hood seal. Electric fans are great to save a few HP on a weak car but Mopars have plenty of power so why bother?

Totally outdated thinking. My Contour set up has no issues at all cooling my 400+ hp, .060" over 340 with 9.8:1 compression. The fans still cycle, on the low speed, when the temperatures here are over 100*F. That's about 38* C for you Aussies. I've never even used the fans on the high speed setting on my car. Yeah, they're not good enough at all.

Modern electric fans for automotive applications can put out over 10,000 cfm. Data on a set of LS1 electric fans here, as well as on the Taurus fan.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350404

Also, I found the thread with several folks that run the Taurus fans on 22" Champion radiators on A-body's. There were some minor modifications made to the Taurus fan to make it work, but it is doable.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=281911&highlight=taurus+fan

This picture shows the Taurus fan installed on a Champion CC526, otherwise known as a 22" 3 core radiator. Because the motor is offset from center it still has enough clearance on the water pump pulley.

[AussieMark]

Modern trucks have electronics that are as technically advanced as any car but I have never seen or heard of an electric cooling fan on any truck if they were so superior to the belt driven viscous fan why don't they use them on trucks?

[burdar]

This picture shows the Taurus fan installed on a Champion CC526

That's not the cc526.  That's the cc2374 I believe.  I didn't go with that radiator because I don't like the look of the angled top tank.  The cc526 has a squared off tank.  I can only assume that's the reason it doesn't fit.  It's not even close actually.

[72bluNblu]

Modern trucks have electronics that are as technically advanced as any car but I have never seen or heard of an electric cooling fan on any truck if they were so superior to the belt driven viscous fan why don't they use them on trucks?

How about because viscous fans are cheaper to produce? Or because they're less complicated? Or because HD trucks have more than enough space to run a viscous fan, and slapping a viscous fan on the front is simply a lot easier than fabricating the wiring harness and controls needed to reliably run an electric fan?

Just because something comes a certain way from the factory doesn't mean that's the best way to do something. In fact, I would say that it's much more reliably the cheapest way to do something, not the best.

Can you run your viscous fan after you shut your car down, when you stop circulating coolant and the temperature of your engine actually rises? Ever seen a fan clutch fail and put the fan through the radiator? How about when your idling in traffic- A viscous fan can only spin as fast as the engine, is it operating at peak efficiency at idle speed? Is your fan clutch controlled thermally, or just mechanically based on operating RPM? Can you change the temperature your fan comes on depending on the time of year? For the day you go to the track? While your idling in traffic?

I'm not saying that electric fans are the best way to go in every situation, they aren't. But, they are more than capable of cooling most car applications, and they offer several advantages over viscous fans.

That's not the cc526.  That's the cc2374 I believe.  I didn't go with that radiator because I don't like the look of the angled top tank.  The cc526 has a squared off tank.  I can only assume that's the reason it doesn't fit.  It's not even close actually.

You're right, you got me on that one it's a 2374. But the difference in the thickness of those two radiators is only a 1/4", at least based on the dimensions listed for those radiators. So it shouldn't be all that different unless something is going on with the 526 to keep the fan from mounting on the radiator the way it does on the 2374.

Part Number: CC526
Core Dimension (H x W): 17 X 22 1/2
Overall Dimension (H x W): 22 7/8 X 25
Rows: 3
3 Row Tank Thickness:   3"
3 Row Core Thickness:   2-1/4"

Part Number: CC2374
Core Dimension (H x W): 15 7/8 x 21 1/2
Overall Dimension (H x W): 21 1/8 x 25 3/4
Rows: 3
3 Row Tank Thickness:   2-3/4"
3 Row Core Thickness:   2-1/2"

[burdar]

I think the cc2374 can be mounted farther to one side then the 526.  My fan pulley would hit about 1/4 of the motors diameter.  The pictures of the 2374 show the pulley along side the motor.  The 526 has shorter mounting ears.  The 2374 might also have the core welded to the brackets farther forward.(towards the front of the car)   

I could cut about a 1/2" off the back of the shroud but that's it.  That would give me 1/8" from the fan blade to the core.  The Taurus fan has a weird bubble in the middle of the fan that sticks out.  If the fan were more flat, I could trim a lot more off the back side.  Anyway, I think they are a good option for an E-body.  I'll save this one incase another project ever comes along. 

[72bluNblu]

I think the cc2374 can be mounted farther to one side then the 526.  My fan pulley would hit about 1/4 of the motors diameter.  The pictures of the 2374 show the pulley along side the motor.  The 526 has shorter mounting ears.  The 2374 might also have the core welded to the brackets farther forward.(towards the front of the car)   

I could cut about a 1/2" off the back of the shroud but that's it.  That would give me 1/8" from the fan blade to the core.  The Taurus fan has a weird bubble in the middle of the fan that sticks out.  If the fan were more flat, I could trim a lot more off the back side.  Anyway, I think they are a good option for an E-body.  I'll save this one incase another project ever comes along. 

Interesting! And, good to know.

It doesn't seem like the two radiators are all that different, but then again it wouldn't take much to make it so that it doesn't work. I'll have to file that one away in case someone over on FABO asks about the Taurus fan conversion, although it seems for some reason that most of the folks that convert over to the Taurus fan have the E-body (CC2374) radiator on their A. Weird. I have the 26" 3 core, and since it works so darn well on my Duster that's probably what I'll do if any of my other cars need new radiators. Or fans.

[AussieMark]

I can see the benefits in a race car using electric fans and even an electric water pump so the coolant can be circulated and cooled while the engine is shut down. Those fans that are in trucks are not cheap I remember a fan blade failed luckily it only did mild damage to the radiator (no leaks) but the new blade was about $600 without the hub so a complete fan must be around $1000 and the crappy plastic radiators go for around $3000, Toyota offer a rebuild kit for their Landcruiser fans it has the seals and fluid so they wouldn't be cheap either. I helped a friend fix their Nissan X trail SUV recently both the electric fans failed at the same time what made them aware there was a problem is the air conditioner started blowing warm air (the high pressure switch must have been triggered when the condenser fan stopped and caused the gas pressure to rise in the system) at that time they noticed the temp gauge was in the red so they had it towed home. For me I leave everything on my Challenger original and have no problems and it is so easy to work on and understand, when you work on modern stuff you spend hours removing other parts just to get to what needs fixing I suppose that is why I like old stuff it does the job and is not as complicated.

[73restomod]

The big problem with electric fans is thermostatic switch failure, manual switch,and or relay failure. Rule of thumb I go by is max draw times 1.5 per fan if possible. A 25 amp max draw fan should have a relay with at least 30+ amp relay at minimum. Electronics don't like being run at 100% duty cycle. Other issue with electric fans is with a dual fan, ideally both fans should start and run together or the running fan will pull air back thru the idle one, reducing cfm that gets pulled thru the radiator. I'm using a pulse width modulated setup from Derale on mine, which is rated for 65 amps total on 2 fans with 25 amps max draw each. It starts and runs both fans on a 60% duty cycle, than ramps them up or down based on temperature until its cool. Using a relay is the best way to wire them, and you can get them up to 70amps for fans. That way the switches are only using minimum voltage/amperage to run relays and are less likely to burn out. Idle amperage of the alternator is the big issue, for a 50amp dual fan, plus fuel pump, electrics, etc. at idle you should want 100amps or better in case you get stuck in traffic. You can reduce the current draw by using LED bulbs, proper wire gauge so the wires don't run hot and burn more electricity, and quality connectors/soldered connections. No Chinese garbage lol.

[Strawdawg]

The HHR fan has been very popular on with many here in the past.  Here's a link that gives some specs and dimensions for three of the popular fans a few years ago including the HHR.

Factory electric fans often have a better shroud design than the aftermarket units which may not do a very good job of pulling air thru the entire core, or block air flow outside of the area covered by the fan.  The price is often better than aftermarket units.  I have a pair of dual Spal high performance fans on one of my Buicks and they were around $300 when I bought them if I recall correctly.  They do clear the pipes, just barely, from the front mount ic and they have flaps that open at speed to allow more air flow thru the radiator core.  They work well with the three pass radiator.

The only downside that I see with our cars is the need for a good alternator.  If the fan does not pull near 30 amps when running, it probably will not compete with a mechanically driven fan if you live in a hot area as I do.  Look at the current draws on the factory fans listed in the link above.

Another benefit is the lower hp required to drive the alternator as compared to that required to drive a mechanical fan-even with a viscous clutch.  Some of these big fans with hd clutches can pull quite a few hp at higher rpm.  For that reason alone, an electric fan can provide more mpg and hp to the rear tires.

The hp required for a truck running at low rpm may not be as significant as it is to a high performance street car turning much higher rpms.

I freely admit, however, I have no problem improving a car or truck that was built 40-50 years ago as I believe in making them perform more like a modern day product wherever practical.  I do see lotsa Ford trucks running electric fans today. 

[WildJones]

Strawdawg, you forgot the link. I am interested in the HHR fan so I would like to learn more about it.

[Strawdawg]

Strawdawg, you forgot the link. I am interested in the HHR fan so I would like to learn more about it.

hell to get old!  lol

http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135721&highlight=oem+electric