Author Topic: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration  (Read 65857 times)

Offline brads70

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2015 - 08:09:43 PM »
I got mine from Mancini. It leaks slightly, but not enough to leave a drop on the garage floor.

http://www.manciniracing.com/rearmainbear.html
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0




Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2015 - 08:50:19 PM »
Well I pulled the oil pan.  Took a look at the rear main oil seal.  So far nothing stood out right now.  I attached some pictures, I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow.

Hi brads70.  Did you buy the whole kit from Mancini like the picture shows?

Thanks for your help guys!!!  I really appreciate it!

Offline brads70

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2015 - 09:46:27 PM »
Well I pulled the oil pan.  Took a look at the rear main oil seal.  So far nothing stood out right now.  I attached some pictures, I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow.

Hi brads70.  Did you buy the whole kit from Mancini like the picture shows?

Thanks for your help guys!!!  I really appreciate it!

Yes it was a kit like the picture shows.
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2015 - 05:25:31 AM »
I know this ia going to sound like a lot more work than necessary, but i think im going to pull the transmission before replacing the rear main seal on my 440. Im not familiar with this seal at all and have tried to read up on it the best i could. If i take the transmission out i can see both sides of the rear main seal before i remove it. Maybe i can tell where it is leaking from by doing this. Plus this may give me a little more room to work with on it. It's going to be a pain to remove the transmission but im hoping this will help me in the long run for making the rear main seal actually seal up. Going to try to tackle the removal after work today.

Offline anlauto

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2015 - 06:53:56 AM »
You will NOT see the seal with the transmission out. The crankshaft blocks your entire view :2cents:
I've taught you everything you know.....but I haven't taught you everything I know !
www.alangallantautomotiverestoration.com

Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #125 on: October 30, 2015 - 08:16:54 AM »
That's a good point anlauto. Im wondering if there is anything else on the back of the block that could be leaking oil. I doubt it is, but that it would be good to look behind the block with transmission out.  Im wondering with the transmission out if it will give me a little more room to work with and stuff. At least if i apply seal to the aluminum retainer i can seal how it seals when i reinstall it, does that sound right

Offline BFM_Cuda

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #126 on: October 30, 2015 - 12:07:04 PM »
Have you pulled the lower seal retainer out yet and looked at the seal itself? You really need to take the seal halves out and look at them before going any further. Its possible the upper half was cut when it was installed. Sometimes the edge of the block is sharp where its machined and can cut the back edge of the seal during install. usually they send a piece with the seal kit to help slide the seal in. 

I totally agree that pulling the transmission is a bad idea and will only make unneeded work for yourself. I would remove the clutch cover for more room, but that's it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015 - 12:12:16 PM by BFM_Cuda »

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2015 - 12:22:39 PM »
how to do this somewhat depends on what resources you have; If you are doing this on the ground on your back. I would not pull the trans unless you intend to use the 1 piece seal. If you have a lift, trans jack, air tools, etc, then I might just to try and get a better view and more room to work. If you have these resources, pulling the trans isn't a big deal, but if you are on the ground it changes the scenario significantly. Remember that if you pull the trans, the back of the engine has to be supported or it will smash into you firewall; you can pad the valve covers which will make contact (assuming the air cleaner is removed). You need to look at everything on the top side which will be moving when the rear of the engine depresses. I can say that there can be secondary issues unless you take your time; things like kinking the throttle cable, pinching wires, etc. If you brace the engine you should be fine.

as to the leak itself, look closely at the oil pan, specifically the rear lip. I have had a number of issues with this issue; oil pan not sealing. I chased a rear main leak for a friend once and it turned out the pan was the problem; the lip was deformed and oil was passing above and below the seal. Got a new pan, new seal (some RTV) and it sealed up. Another aspect is that of having a good PCV valve; the engine builds internal pressure, it needs to go somewhere; the weakest link in the system will give.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #128 on: October 30, 2015 - 05:35:18 PM »
Hey guys.  Thanks for the feedback.  My transmission is a Hurst TKO-600 and I don't have a clutch inspection cover to look into.  I would need to remove the transmission and bell housing to get in there to view it.

I did put on 2 valve cover breathers, one on each valve cover, both of them were done at  the same and it still leaked.  So I would think that would vent it decent wouldn't it?

I will pull the oil pan tonight and take a look at the rear main seal.  I checked the oil pan leaking at the back as suggested, but you can see the leak coming between the engine block and the scatter shield. 

I do have a 4-post lift and a heavy duty tray that I can support the engine block from underneath after the oil pan is removed if I decide to remove the transmission. 

Decisions, decisions.....  I will most likely pull the rear main seal retainer and take a look at it, then decide whether to pull the transmission or just buy a rear main seal retainer kit from Mancini racing and install it.

Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #129 on: October 30, 2015 - 10:32:17 PM »
Well I took everyone's advice and removed the rear seal retainer and left the transmission installed.  So I unbolted the 2x  12-point bolts.  The first bolt I loosened was not not fully torqued at all.  The other one had a little more torque on it.  But I took a torque wrench out and put it to 20 ft-lbs and started turning it like is was torquing it down for installation.  So obviously there wasn't the required 25ft-lbs of torque on the bolts.  I took the retainer out and saw there was not side vertical seals installed.  The person who had the engine before used black RTV, it appeared that it sealed though.  I did see however at the top of the retainer where it meets with the engine block and upper seal there was not RTV sealer applied. 

So I went to the local parts store, they had a the vertical side seals for a 440, actually they had a kit, but I only used the vertical seals.  I bought some of the copper RTV sealant that people liked on here.  I clean all the surfaces and applied the copper RTV sealant on the mating surfaces of the retainer and took a tiny brush and brushed some sealant in the two corners in the block to so that it will seal that area up better. 

I left the oil pan off for tonight.  I will reinstall it tomorrow, fill it up with oil again and see if it leaks or not. My fingers are crossed!

Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2015 - 03:58:42 PM »
Fired up the engine today and let it idle and also it held it at higher rpm and a couple of engine snaps for 5 or 10 minutes.  So far no leaks so im that corrected that easily. I'll keep an eye on it when the engine is running for awhile just to make sure.

Offline brads70

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #131 on: October 31, 2015 - 08:34:56 PM »
Fired up the engine today and let it idle and also it held it at higher rpm and a couple of engine snaps for 5 or 10 minutes.  So far no leaks so im that corrected that easily. I'll keep an eye on it when the engine is running for awhile just to make sure.

Good to hear!  :2thumbs:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Topcat

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2015 - 07:49:08 PM »
Fired up the engine today and let it idle and also it held it at higher rpm and a couple of engine snaps for 5 or 10 minutes.  So far no leaks so im that corrected that easily. I'll keep an eye on it when the engine is running for awhile just to make sure.

Can you throw a Youtube of it up here?
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline magoo426

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2015 - 08:43:24 PM »
Had another productive day today.  First I was trying to put the transmission in gear, however it wasn't working.  Checked the throw out bearing, it wasn't depressing the clutch, grrrrrrr!!!!!!

This meant my measurements for the shims were way off and I didn't realize it till now.  So I pulled the transmission and re-measured everything.  It looked like I was off by over 0.25"~0.5" or more.   The only thing I can think of is I didn't subtract the thickness square tubing bar I used to aid in the measuring of the clutch fingers to the bell housing mounting surface. 

I put the correct shims on the transmission, re-installed it into the car.  That was a chore, but it is done.  Everything is bolted back up and torqued.  I still have to bleed the clutch and stuff like that to see how it works.  But from inspecting now, it looks a lot better. 

Also, before I pulled the transmission it seemed like it was hard to get it into 1st and 2nd gear.  Now when I reinstalled it, it falls into every gear like butter.  Very happy about that. 

I'm done for the day now, even though I took a few steps back, I got 3 major problems fixed it appears today!!!

More to come tomorrow!  As far as the youtube video.  I've never done anything like that before.  So maybe if I ever get some time I'll give it a shot.

Offline quapman

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Re: Snake Skin Green Challenger Restoration
« Reply #134 on: November 02, 2015 - 06:13:34 AM »
Will your two breathers work the same as a PCV? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Not even close. Did I say NO? Positive Crankcase Ventilation. It's self-explanatory. You want more oil leaks, keep the dual breathers.

Your car looks awesome and I'm loving the progress.

Not criticizing, but why on earth are you using those restrictive log type exhaust manifolds? You'll lose a good 20-30 hp compared to HP manifolds.
My name is Steve and I'm addicted to Challengers...