Author Topic: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?  (Read 2834 times)

Offline shawge

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Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« on: June 12, 2015 - 12:14:41 AM »
For the big front tire crowd, how close are you to the frame/fender with the wheel turned?  What about at full compression/extension? 

I've read that 1/2" to the springs/quarter is good for the rear tires.  How much clearance should one look for up front?
- Jerry




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015 - 12:39:47 AM »
lots , even a 255 60 is to big , hits the frame on tight turns & bent my fender in the first 1/2 mile after spending 20k on paint  :banghead:
 it would vary if you do not mind the front end sitting higher

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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015 - 03:34:36 AM »
Rear tires are pretty easy. You're really only looking at vertical travel, a little lateral movement with the springs, body roll, and sidewall flex. 1/2" is usually a good guideline, you can get away with less to the springs, but not usually to the quarter.

The front is a lot more complicated. The tire to frame clearance is easy, as long as the tire isn't hitting the frame at full lock you're good to go. Unless maybe you're building a drift car. Otherwise, the only time you'll be at full lock is at parking lot speeds, and even if you do get a rub on the frame when you hit a pothole at full lock you're not likely to hurt anything.

The fender is a whole different ballgame. I'm not sure I even want to give a recommended distance. It depends on body roll, ride height, your car's alignment, your cars amount of suspension travel (which depends on ride height and torsion bar size), how much travel you need with the wheels turned, etc.

A very rough measurement is usually about 3/4" from the tire to the inside lip of the fender. But, like I said, your experience may vary.

Also, it depends on tire width AND height. 255/60/15's are 27" tall. That's just silly on the front, you'll have nothing but problems and there's no reason or advantages to do it. On the other hand, I run 275/40/17's on my Challenger without issue. They're 25.7" tall, and my car sits pretty low. If you stick to tires that are ~26" tall, you can go with a 275mm wide front tire with the correct backspacing. But you'll probably need to run 17" or larger rims to make that happen.

My Challenger has 275/40/17's all the way around on 17x9" rims with 5" of backspace. They barely clear the fender lips, but have a little room to the frame. But I also run -.9* of camber and +5* caster, and my car sits fairly low. It also depends on what you're willing to do. I removed the inner fender braces on my car because of the ride height, I wasn't clearing them at full travel. But I haven't really done any work on the fender lips, the driver's side is stock and never rubbed, the passenger fender is partially rolled because of some occasional rubs when entering driveways (ie, wheels turned + suspension travel). If you weren't opposed to rolling the fender lips and got your backspacing perfect, 285's might be possible without cutting/flaring. Without any mods I would say 275's are the biggest you can safely go, and even that will depend on ride height and suspension choices. I run 1.12" torsion bars and am lowered up front, so I have less suspension travel than a stock car.






Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015 - 11:39:12 AM »
unfortunatly there really are no 255/50 for 15" rims though

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Offline dfrazz

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015 - 11:43:31 AM »
255 50 17s on mine rubbed the frame rail at full turn, and I had to roll the inner fender lip. 




Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015 - 12:15:58 PM »
unfortunatly there really are no 255/50 for 15" rims though

True, but the OP does not specify that he wants a 15" rim, and most folks that want to run wide front tires are doing so for handling, which usually means modern compound tires, which means 17" or larger rims.

255 50 17s on mine rubbed the frame rail at full turn, and I had to roll the inner fender lip. 

That's still a 27" tall front tire. There's a lot more room to run wider tires if you stick closer to the stock height, or around 26".

Great looking car btw.  :thumbsup: Love the '71's.

Offline shawge

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015 - 01:15:38 PM »
Thanks, the comments are appreciated.  True, I didn't specify a wheel size.  I was just wondering if there was a rule of thumb for the front clearances like for the rear as I figure out what wheel/tire combos would fit my car.
 
72bluNblu, I've been looking at your car for a while and like the way it sits.  For my 70 Challenger, I'm looking at an 18x9.5 wheel with 5.5" BS and a 275-35 tire on the fronts.  The reason for the 5.5 vs the 5.25 (0 offset) is because the DrDiff brakes push the track out 1/4" per side.  It looks like I'll need to step up the torsion bars to something above 1.1", currently at 0.99".  Fender lips have been previously rolled and the brace is still there.
- Jerry

Offline dodj

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015 - 01:50:18 PM »
I have 255/45/17 on the front with 5" backspace. I think about 5" backspace with the stock rotor location will let you fit the max tire. Mine don't rub at full lock. I have 1.1" t-bars.
Actual tire to frame measurement I can't get you until I get the car back on it's wheels. A week or two.
Scott
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Big tires in the front - how close is too clouse?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2015 - 07:56:12 PM »
Thanks, the comments are appreciated.  True, I didn't specify a wheel size.  I was just wondering if there was a rule of thumb for the front clearances like for the rear as I figure out what wheel/tire combos would fit my car.
 
72bluNblu, I've been looking at your car for a while and like the way it sits.  For my 70 Challenger, I'm looking at an 18x9.5 wheel with 5.5" BS and a 275-35 tire on the fronts.  The reason for the 5.5 vs the 5.25 (0 offset) is because the DrDiff brakes push the track out 1/4" per side.  It looks like I'll need to step up the torsion bars to something above 1.1", currently at 0.99".  Fender lips have been previously rolled and the brace is still there.

Which Dr. Diff brake kit?

I have his 13" cobra style kit on my Duster. The 13" kits move the mounting surface out about 3/16".

Your set up sounds good, should work out ok. With 18" rims you can get away with a little more backspace, because the outer tie rod should clear the inside lip of the rim regardless. The outer tie rod becomes an issue before the frame clearance does, so with an 18" rim and the tie rod not being an issue you could probably run a little more than even what you're planning. Might only be an extra 1/4", but that makes a big difference once you get the clearances as tight as they are with a 275mm tire.

I have 255/45/17 on the front with 5" backspace. I think about 5" backspace with the stock rotor location will let you fit the max tire. Mine don't rub at full lock. I have 1.1" t-bars.
Actual tire to frame measurement I can't get you until I get the car back on it's wheels. A week or two.

With a 17" rim you pretty much need to be at 0 offset to clear the outer tie rod, and I don't think a 17x9.5" rim would work because of the tie rod clearance.

On my car my 17x9's and 5" backspace (0 offset) have a little less than a 1/4" clearance to the outer tie rod. The 275/40/17's clear the frame without issue. Ideally with my set up I would say 5.125" backspace would be perfect, I doubt I would have needed to do anything to the passenger fender lip if I had the extra 1/8" of backspace. But I wouldn't  be able to go to 5.25" because of the outer tie rod. Same with a 17x9.5, the extra 1/4" would mean it would hit the tie rod. Or the fender, if you reduced the backspacing to clear the tie rod.

The 18" rim removes the tie rod clearance issue, so you only have to worry about the frame. Based on my car anyway that would mean about 5.25" backspace for a 9" wide rim, and 5.5" for a 9.5", plus whatever offset is added with an aftermarket brake kit. Keep in mind that you can always add a small spacer if you have too much backspace, but you're pretty much out of luck if you don't have enough. Spacers less than a 1/4" thick are no big deal.

As far as the torsion bars go, .99" isn't bad at all depending on your set up. If you're running a small block they should be fine with a set of aftermarket sway bars unless you're really planning on getting after it at the local AutoX's. They're light years ahead of the stock bars. Just depends on how you're planning on using the car and how much your want to lower it. Keep in mind that as you lower the car with the torsion bar adjusters you lose suspension travel, so, you need to compensate with stiffer torsion bars unless you want to be constantly hitting the bumpstops.