Borgeson P/S box

[roadman5312]

      Been bugging the snot out of me since I bolted the steering box on next to the Hemi. Man thats some tight quarters, and HEAT from the manifold. I'm looking at the Borgeson unit, much smaller. Anybody using this box ?  Pro, cons,     

P.S This car will be used, not sit around and collect dust.           http://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-800126/applications/year/1970/make/dodge/model/challenger

[shawge]

I've got the first gen box.  The second gen box is slightly smaller and I think lighter and cheaper than the first gen box.

Pros: lighter than OEM, 14:1 turn ratio
Cons: expensive, not new, some have had issues w/ too few threads showing for the pitman arm nut, some have had issues w/ the box being welded incorrectly (shaft angled towards engine)

I do not know if the second gen boxes suffer the same issues as the first.

I have the small sector version and used a Proforged Pitman Arm (103-10030) and have plenty of threads showing.
The box was slightly tilted towards the engine, by about 3.5 degrees.  I made shims from a 3 degree axle shim to correct the problem.
I can't compare it to a FF stage 1/2/3 box. I went from a well worn OEM to this.

Summit may be the best place to buy it from if you're dead set on getting one.  Returns would be easier if you encounter any of the above issues.

See these threads for some of the headaches
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/8128289/site_id/1
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/8287244/site_id/1

[Priesty]

Love mine. Zero fitment issues (can't remember which sector shaft I had but no problems). Compact & much lighter than oem. does angle slightly towards engine, but nothing the flexible coupling can't cater for. It is a pricey unit especially if you also purchase the bergman coupling as well (allows fitting without cutting the strg shaft). but worth every penny IMO. Steering is nice & direct, almost feels like R/pinion & tighter ratio to boot. Do read the above links though because I know some have had issues.
 

[Topcat]

Yeah it's tight fit how close the OEM box is to the exhaust manifolds.

The way I look at it is:
You're car isn't a daily driver first of all. Right?
You can buy a power steering cooler wether it's a Federal or Saginaw.

[roadman5312]

Thanks for the info guys. Its not going to be a daily driver, but will get a good bit of weekend driving, maybe (hopefully ) a power tour or two. With the summer temps down here and that stock box so tight on the manifold I don't want to have to deal with having to remove it after the cars finished. I'm going to keep researching alternatives. Anymore input out there ?  Does anyone else offer a new box ?

[WildJones]

I bought a second gen box, but haven't been able to drive my car. Still a ton more to do. But on the flip side, the light weight and small form factor was intriguing.

[dfrazz]

I'm going to keep researching alternatives. Anymore input out there ?  Does anyone else offer a new box ?

I read about a coupler made so you do not have to cut your column.  Now you have to convince yourself it is worth $400 over the FirmFeel box.

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/tech-stories/tech-install-1962-82-mopar-steering-box-upgrade-with-borgeson/

The product is actually from another company, not Borgeson:

http://bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-0010

[Mopar Mitch]

I'm actually pretty interested in the Borgenson box.. to possibly replace my current T/A box.  I'm curious if anyone has installed the longer Fast Ratio T/A pitman arm, along with the required longer idler arm (its simply a C-Body idler arm, such as '70 Fury... no such thing as a "fast-ratio idler arm")... and then...  what results and comments using that setup (2nd gen Borgenson ps box, T/A fast-ratio large-splined pitman arm, long idler arm).

Would this setup clear a Mildon RoadRace oil pan?

I've been using Hooker Comp headers with acceptable clearance... so... I would hope the Borgenson setup, as I would intend, would also clear.

As most of you know, I use my car seriously for AX and HSAX, and HPDE driving events.  Fast steering response is critical, especially for pylon AX.  The road course events are just fine as-is.... and the pylon AX events.. I can whip through the cones back-forth-back-forth very fast with the added plus of using a small diameter (11.5") steering wheel... and the most important Saginaw ps pump (the Federal and Thompson pumps should never be used as they cannot keep up with the required quick actions of steering... they basically go dead in fast maneuvers.. in case anyone didn't know by now).   Reduced weight is always a big plus... as all weight reductions continue to add up and improve overall handling/performance response.. especially when its in the front end!

I'm re-doing my engine bay now (engine out/to be rebuilt, kframe and lcas rewelded, up-grading to 11/16 tierods, adjustable Strut rods with poly bushgs, poly lca bushngs... most if not all will come from Firm Feel... winter project).    I'm debating the FF Stage-3 rebuild of my T/A ps box... or to make the experimental change to the Borgenson box (and Berman coupler).

I'll be contacting Peter at BAC ... if anyone else has comments, I'd appreciate hearing from you.   Again, this is a winter project.. will take me into 2016-17 to get back onto the road and tracks.. into the action!   I enjoy winning and beating the competition... they all envy me with my T/A!... and the competition continues to get tougher each year!

[WildJones]

I'm actually pretty interested in the Borgenson box.. to possibly replace my current T/A box.  I'm curious if anyone has installed the longer Fast Ratio T/A pitman arm, along with the required longer idler arm (its simply a C-Body idler arm, such as '70 Fury... no such thing as a "fast-ratio idler arm")... and then...  what results and comments using that setup (2nd gen Borgenson ps box, T/A fast-ratio large-splined pitman arm, long idler arm).

Would this setup clear a Mildon RoadRace oil pan?

I've been using Hooker Comp headers with acceptable clearance... so... I would hope the Borgenson setup, as I would intend, would also clear.

As most of you know, I use my car seriously for AX and HSAX, and HPDE driving events.  Fast steering response is critical, especially for pylon AX.  The road course events are just fine as-is.... and the pylon AX events.. I can whip through the cones back-forth-back-forth very fast with the added plus of using a small diameter (11.5") steering wheel... and the most important Saginaw ps pump (the Federal and Thompson pumps should never be used as they cannot keep up with the required quick actions of steering... they basically go dead in fast maneuvers.. in case anyone didn't know by now).   Reduced weight is always a big plus... as all weight reductions continue to add up and improve overall handling/performance response.. especially when its in the front end!

I'm re-doing my engine bay now (engine out/to be rebuilt, kframe and lcas rewelded, up-grading to 11/16 tierods, adjustable Strut rods with poly bushgs, poly lca bushngs... most if not all will come from Firm Feel... winter project).    I'm debating the FF Stage-3 rebuild of my T/A ps box... or to make the experimental change to the Borgenson box (and Berman coupler).

I'll be contacting Peter at BAC ... if anyone else has comments, I'd appreciate hearing from you.   Again, this is a winter project.. will take me into 2016-17 to get back onto the road and tracks.. into the action!   I enjoy winning and beating the competition... they all envy me with my T/A!... and the competition continues to get tougher each year!

Mitch,

Can't answer your clearance question as I am still struggling to get my car back together, but as far as running the fast ratio arms with the Borgeson box, I think Peter @ Bergman is going to tell you it would be too twitchy. I asked him the same question when I was debating on buying that box vs rebuilding my box from FF and adding in the fast ratio arms. For AX it might be fine, but he thought for the high speed road courses might be too twitchy.

[dfrazz]

I'll be contacting Peter at BAC ... if anyone else has comments, I'd appreciate hearing from you.   Again, this is a winter project.. will take me into 2016-17 to get back onto the road and tracks.. into the action!   I enjoy winning and beating the competition... they all envy me with my T/A!... and the competition continues to get tougher each year!

I just got of the phone with Peter at BAC and he is an active AX with a wicked Dart!  He seems to know his stuff and is sending be a quote for the box swap and other suspension parts.  BTW, he bought up all the old XV t-bars and only has 1.05" left.