Author Topic: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion  (Read 4548 times)

Offline Spartan040

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XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« on: July 02, 2015 - 12:41:22 AM »
I am intending to build a pro-touring car out of a 1970 Challenger, and I realize this topic has probably been beat to death, but I need to know which aftermarket suspension system is going to make it handle as well, and feel as smooth, as possible, as close to a modern car as possible. What are the differences between them? For the engine, tranny and exhaust, I'm intending to go with a built 440 with an A-518 (with Gear Vendors kit) and TTI 1-3/4" headers and 3" H-pipe exhaust.




Offline HP2

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015 - 09:56:15 AM »
I need to know which aftermarket suspension system is going to make it handle as well, and feel as smooth, as possible, as close to a modern car as possible.

Hotchkis and Firm Feel can do this with the stock system for around $3500. Add in a Borgeson steering box for $1400 and you are there for under 5 grand.

As far as AlterKation vs XV;
AlterK is Mustang 2 based, XV is  Corvette based.
AlterK is all mild steel, XV has some pieces made of cast and extruded aluminum.
AlterK front is a direct bolt in, rear requires minor welding. XV requires cutting and welding on both ends.
AlterK will cost around $10k for front, rear, and brakes. XV will cost around $10k front and rear once it is optioned out and equipped with brakes.
AlterK comes with adjustable shocks you will need to dial in, XV comes with pre-valved, combination specific valving that you bolt on and go.
AlterK will offer one free spring exchange while you are setting up your system, XV comes with pre-determined spring rates.
Alterk has a reputation for exception service and support. XV was bought out by a former employee and is improving customer service and support.
AlterK has sold thousands of systems for performance street and drag racing applications. Xv has sold hundreds of kits for performance street use.
Both are coil over, R&P systems that allow quick spring changes, easy ride height adjustment, steering precision, combined with compact size and light weight.

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2015 - 10:43:51 AM »
Hotchkis... XV may be under new ownership but after the way they burned customers in the past I wouldn't send my hard earned money their direction....  Alterkation I've only driven one car with it but the akerman angle built into the system is so far off you can feel the tires bind & step over in low speed full lock situations... If they didn't get that simple geometry right I have no faith that much else is truly right either...
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Offline Spartan040

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2015 - 10:53:20 AM »
I've heard that the AlterK was better than the Hotchkis system? I'm also wondering if these systems come with, or are compatible with, anti-sway bars and subframe connectors?

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2015 - 11:41:52 AM »
Alterkation is a coil over system with rack & pinion steering, Hotchkis TVS is based on the original Chrysler design with improved geometry... By a company that actually seems to understand geometry... 

It's amazing to me how many people these days are looking to scrap the OE design suspension on these cars when for many years it was what other car guys envied...  So scrap something thats well designed & there are parts to improve it & make it act like a very modern muscle car...  And replace it with something based on the suspension design of a Pinto... Yeah, that seems like a good idea...  Like I said earlier, I've only driven one Alterkation equipped vehicle & I wasn't very impressed...
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
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Offline RCCDrew

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015 - 12:02:48 PM »

Alterkation is a coil over system with rack & pinion steering, Hotchkis TVS is based on the original Chrysler design with improved geometry... By a company that actually seems to understand geometry... 

It's amazing to me how many people these days are looking to scrap the OE design suspension on these cars when for many years it was what other car guys envied...  So scrap something thats well designed & there are parts to improve it & make it act like a very modern muscle car...  And replace it with something based on the suspension design of a Pinto... Yeah, that seems like a good idea...  Like I said earlier, I've only driven one Alterkation equipped vehicle & I wasn't very impressed...
AMEN!!

Offline Spartan040

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015 - 12:08:58 PM »
AMEN!!

I just watched a video comparing a '70 TA 340 Challenger with the Hotchkis setup to a 2010 SRT8 Challenger, it actually handled BETTER than the new car, and faster. I guess I'll have to look much harder at the Hotchkis.

Is the Hotchkis only for the front suspension? Or does it modify both the front and rear? If it doesn't, how is the Street Lynx rear system and is it compatible with a posi rear end?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015 - 12:11:39 PM by Spartan040 »

Offline HP2

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015 - 02:00:30 PM »
I've heard that the AlterK was better than the Hotchkis system? I'm also wondering if these systems come with, or are compatible with, anti-sway bars and subframe connectors?

Better depends on the application. AlterK drops 150# and opens up all sorts of room in the engine bay. Drag racers love it for this reason. Hotchkis, or Firm Feel for that matter, bolt into stock locations and retain a very stock look while significantly improving performance. This is a win/win for owners who don't want to appear radically modified, cut up, weld, or otherwise modify very valuable cars.

And yes, any/all of these come with anti-sway bars and are compatible with sub-frame connectors.

Is the Hotchkis only for the front suspension? Or does it modify both the front and rear? If it doesn't, how is the Street Lynx rear system and is it compatible with a posi rear end?

Hotchkis offers parts for both the front and the rear. See my first post of $3500 complete and then go to their site and look at the TVS system. You can buy them all at once or pick them up in pieces for partial updates while you are driving your car. By comparison, either of the coil over systems will cost you $10,000 complete and will require the car be off the road for extended periods of time while it is dis-assembled, cut, welded, and the new system installed. Based on you line of questioning, do you plan on doing this work, or are you going to have to sub-contract installation? Either of the coil over systems will probably have $2-5k worth of install costs, if you can find a shop to do them. Hotchkis and Firm Feel can be installed by you, in your driveway, with basic hand tools, or if you have to go the shop route, are no different than replacing stock parts and should be able to be completed for $1k, give or take.

Yes, any system in this discussion or others you may have considered in the past are compatible with limited slip rear ends.

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015 - 02:41:39 PM »
Better depends on the application. AlterK drops 150# and opens up all sorts of room in the engine bay. Drag racers love it for this reason. Hotchkis, or Firm Feel for that matter, bolt into stock locations and retain a very stock look while significantly improving performance. This is a win/win for owners who don't want to appear radically modified, cut up, weld, or otherwise modify very valuable cars.


I'd be willing to bet the weight savings is less than half that....

Yes it opens up allot of room under the car for headers & such, funny thing, the car I got involved with after he'd been sold all the cool "upgrades" had Hooker headers... They didn't fit so the guy doing the build beat the hell out of them to make them fit.... 

Drag racers love them... Well drag racers have different goals than guys who actually drive their cars on the street...

FWIW Alterkation & XV may look cool, but I think driving the cars is a heck of allot cooler than looking cool.. I want stuff designed to handle well on the street...
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline Spartan040

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015 - 04:22:46 PM »
Alright, so I guess I'm going with Hotchkis. Street performance matters more to me. Next question. Will it interfere with the TTI 1-3/4" step headers and 3" TTI H-pipe exhaust I selected? Or the A-518 with GV overdrive?

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015 - 04:40:22 PM »
Should clear your exhaust & trans no issues. Either look at a Firm Feel Stage 3 box or a Borgeson box...  You shouldn't need a GV O/D with a 518... A 518 already has a pretty good O/D....  Run a 3.73 gear out back, in O/D it will be equivalent to a 2.49 which  means at 75 mph with a 28" tire you'll be turning 2240 rpm....  105 MPH will be 3000 rpm....
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline Spartan040

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015 - 04:44:32 PM »
Should clear your exhaust & trans no issues. Either look at a Firm Feel Stage 3 box or a Borgeson box...  You shouldn't need a GV O/D with a 518... A 518 already has a pretty good O/D....  Run a 3.73 gear out back, in O/D it will be equivalent to a 2.49 which  means at 75 mph with a 28" tire you'll be turning 2240 rpm....  105 MPH will be 3000 rpm....

Heard about the Borgeson and decided on that, how does it compare to the Stage 3? And I know, but the idea of having 8 gears in an automatic really attracted me  :grinno: since I can't have the new 8HP90 Torqueflite

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015 - 04:53:28 PM »
Heard about the Borgeson and decided on that, how does it compare to the Stage 3? And I know, but the idea of having 8 gears in an automatic really attracted me  :grinno: since I can't have the new 8HP90 Torqueflite

 :roflsmiley: If you gotta have eight gears so be it...    The Borgeson is a currently produced box so your not dealing will a core that was las produced in the late eighties... Fact is Borgeson uses so many steering box cores they currently are using brand new boxes to modify where as Firm Firm uses an OE box last produced in 1989.. Firm Feel does do an excellent job of selecting the best cores & doing a first class rebuild & performance upgrade but they are limited by core availability...

FWIW Borgeson uses a box originally designed for Isuzu trucks.. If you've driven modern Isuzu trucks you'll know they drive pretty well as far as steering feel & feedback..
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline HP2

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2015 - 06:03:11 PM »
 FWIW, while the GV OD unit can be used to split the 4 gears of a 518 into 8, the narrow spread between the split as well as the manual activation/deactivation of the splitter, does not make it a practical 8 speed transmission. Unless they have come out with a computer control to perform the split and upshift automatically, it does not work like a modern 8 speed automatic.

The advantage of that many gears is not necessarily to create a low cruising rpm range, but to allow the engine to operate within a narrower range where its efficiency is highest.

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: XV Level 2 vs AlterKtion
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2015 - 06:10:16 PM »
FWIW, while the GV OD unit can be used to split the 4 gears of a 518 into 8, the narrow spread between the split as well as the manual activation/deactivation of the splitter, does not make it a practical 8 speed transmission. Unless they have come out with a computer control to perform the split and upshift automatically, it does not work like a modern 8 speed automatic.

The advantage of that many gears is not necessarily to create a low cruising rpm range, but to allow the engine to operate within a narrower range where its efficiency is highest.

Agreed.. The whole point of eight speed transmissions in modern vehicles is keeping engine RPM's in a very limited range to maximize fuel economy.. And the GV unit isn't designed for gear splitting, realistically you'll have five gears & the range between first & fifth is so wide first or fifth won't be useful...

But if you must, feel free..
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...