The big Chrysler historical records "fire" of the 1970's

[RzeroB]

With the value of these classic muscle Mopars going up, you hear all the time of the importance of "documentation" - it makes a huge difference in the market value of similarly equipped cars. All too often you hear how rare certain cars are promoted as being by using phrases like "1 of 1 with this combination," or "1 of 2 with this option" - but how are we to really know? Sadly it seems that we can't. We can only go with the sometimes vague and always open to interpretation "known to exist" criteria. We don't have empirical data from Chrysler as to as to how many of this or that they actually made. Why? A great number of Chrysler historical records are said to have been destroyed in a big fire that swept thru the records department sometime during the 1970's.

Exactly when the big fire happened I don't know, but you can find references to it on just every Mopar website. How it happened I don't know either. But what intrigues me is what is the real story behind the great Chrysler historical records fire of the late 1970's? Was it really an accident that destroyed those records? Or, was it somehow associated to the company's bankruptcy in the late 1970's and a deliberate act to destroy records which may have had some kind of an influence on the company's bankruptcy bailout?

In 2009 with the company in bankruptcy ... again, and under control of Cerberus, records disappeared ... again, but in a different way. To cut costs Cerberus closed the company's historical records department and shuttered the Chrysler Technical Center archives library. In fact, they didn't just "shuttered" the CTC's archives library they literally gave away historical records and documents to just about anybody who came to haul it off for them!

Seems kind of coincidental that while struggling thru bankruptcies in the 1970's and in 2009 historical records just disappeared - by fire in the 1970's, and by a virtual give away in 2009. There are still a lot of articles around pertaining to the 2009 bankruptcy and the historical documents elimination by Cerberus. However, it is a lot harder to find factual information on the notorious historical records fire that destroyed all those records back in the 1970's. So, who here can shed some truth on what really happened with those records and the "fire?" Does anybody have any real info on the big fire? Old news stories, pictures, anything factual? Was it really accidental ... or part of a bankruptcy cover up??



 

[brads70]

   subscribed...

['Cuda Hunter]

Yes, I would love to hear some details about this.  Factual that is.  I've heard lots about it but it's all speculation.

 

[ChallengerHK]

I've been looking into this for years, and I've never been able to pin anything down. I agree with you that I've been hearing and reading about a mysterious warehouse fire for years, but I've never been able to find anyone who could confirm any of the information.

On a related note, when I was planning an article of the Yellow Jacket in the 80s I contacted the publicity department, and they gave me the original 4x5 transparencies of the Yellow Jacket.

[roadman5312]

   

     interesting   

[HP2]

Truth be told.... they were bankrupt, they burned them in the company boiler to heat the plant.


 

[RzeroB]

I've been looking into this for years, and I've never been able to pin anything down. I agree with you that I've been hearing and reading about a mysterious warehouse fire for years, but I've never been able to find anyone who could confirm any of the information.

Makes you wonder doesn't it? We have all accepted this story as fact as to why no factory historical records are available for these cars, yet we can't find any empirical evidence that it actually occurred as legend leads us to believe. Makes me wonder what the real story is ... HP2 may be onto something with his records being burned to heat the plant boilers theory ... or is there something more to it??

[ChallengerHK]

One other thing I'll throw into the mix. When I was first working in Detroit, I worked in a building that was divided into three parts. The far part did bookkeeping, my part did training design, and the biggest part in the middle did custom fabrication for Chrysler, mostly for things like show cars. Although they tried to keep us out of that section, I saw a lot of cool things come through there...and I also saw a lot of cool things thrown away. Great example, two hoods for the prototype Viper, which had been sitting on pallets, were scrapped because they needed floor space. My point is, while we find this material historically important and fascinating, Chrysler frequently did not.

[sadil340]

 

[RzeroB]

I saw a lot of cool things come through there...and I also saw a lot of cool things thrown away. Great example, two hoods for the prototype Viper, which had been sitting on pallets, were scrapped because they needed floor space. My point is, while we find this material historically important and fascinating, Chrysler frequently did not.

Unfortunately that is the business aspect of it - if it is not making money right now - it's got to go!

Sometime in the 80's I remember reading this magazine article about Chrysler liquidated stuff during their bankruptcy. Part of the article focused on NOS sheetmetal and how pallets of fenders, doors, hoods, etc., were sold off for pennies on the pound. Embedded in that part of the article was a picture of a pallet of Shaker hoods on their way to the scrapper for pennies on the pound. Can you imagine that? Never forgot that picture. Wish I could remember where the article was from!

Since information on this "fire" seems pretty difficult to come by, I'm wondering if it ever even happened. Instead of a "fire" sweeping through the historical records department I'm starting to think that maybe it was a "fire-sale" that swept through? Along with the pallets of Shaker hoods and everything else they were liquidating, maybe they just cleaned house in the records department and threw everything out? Then over time, we forgot about the "sale" part and just remembered it as a "fire"?

[DocMel]

I read the so-called lost/burned records are located under a nearby grassy knoll in an underground bunker.  The shaker hoods mentioned were taken away, melted down, and then used as material for a new stealth fighter project   

[HP_Cuda]

You will find the historical records you seek right next to Jimmy Hoffa.

 

[70chall440]

Let me add to the conspiracy component of this; I attended SEMA in 2013 and while they visited the Mopar booth. I got to talking to a young (late 20's early 30's) guy about Mopar in general, the conversation turned to classic Mopars. He said he wanted to show me something; he pulled out a binder type book that had a 69 Charger on it (I think). This book was about 3 inches thick and he went on to ask me if I thought the hobbyists would buy something like this. Basically it was a model specific fact book that had a lot of period marketing material, specifications, facts, etc. He then told me that one concept was to "personalize" the book, I asked him what he meant. He said, "someone could send us their VIN and we would print off the window sticker/option list from that car and include it in the book". I immediately asked about this aspect and if Chrysler had all of these records. He responded (with a lot of confidence) "yes, they are all on microfiche in Detroit, they have them for every car they have built". I told him that the hobby would be VERY interested in these records and that if they (Chrysler) were to offer this service and books people would assuredly buy them. I had some friends with in the restoration business and called them over repeating what this guy said. They immediately began to question him as to where these records were, etc. He realized he opened a can of worms and retreated stating he had to talk to someone else, then moved off with his book in hand.

Now, either he was very mistaken, very misinformed, or had spoken way out of turn (probably all). Before he departed he traded information with my friends but they have never heard back from him nor have they been able to contact him. Yet another aspect that is Mopar that make you wonder. Reminds me of the big foot and alien issues... 

[HP2]

Yeah, he could have been working off some pretty big assumptions that all that data is actually available and once he realized there was some pretty intense interest in it, decided to backpedal before he created a mess.

[ChallengerHK]

  And those assumptions might have been fueled by some of the other marques. I've been told the Shelby people have individual records on just about every car.