Restomodding E bodies

[UK petrol head]

Hi,
Im from the UK and am fortunate enough to have imported a 2012 challenger SRT8, I care not for uk fuel prices as every time I get in the car it never fails to raise a smile.. This got me thinking about going old skool with a 70s E body Challenger or Cuda.. As the uk has tight twisty roads I need this car to handle like its much younger sibling that I have. Having read information regarding suspension setups I find it difficult to believe that the horse and cart type suspension as originally fitted to these motors can be as good as a modern coilover setup, because if that were the case my SRT8 would have leaf springs rather than the Mercedes inspired arrangement that it has? Furthermore, considering that I want the Gen3 392 engine in it 475hp would appear to be a lot of power without control? Comments please?

I need advise on where is the best place to get parts to make this conversion, Bouchillon Performance Engineering seems to be the name that often crops up can anyone advise on any others?

Lastly I need some advise on actually buying a car from the states, I have the ability to make any shape out of metal so would not be frightened by something that has a lot of rust that others may think is beyond repair. I need the car to be complete as in my experience you spend more dinero on missing parts than restoring what is already there. I also have to think about import tax from the states to the uk so the cheaper the better for me. Can anyone advise on any websites where restoration projects are for sale at a good price?

[soundcontrol]

Have you seen the Hotchkiss Challenger?   


https://youtu.be/kvnRmtsQJM8


I doing a restomod 70 convertible, with a 6.1 Hemi. The Hotchkiss Challenger inspired me, and I decided to keep the original supension but with upgrades. Then there is the AlterK suspension also, looked at that but did decide on the old schoool suspension setup. I am installing Wilwood brakes and a FF stage II steeringbox also. And US Car tools kit for the chassis.  Welcome btw!


Bouchillion, Modern Muscle, Hotwire Auto, EFI Source, Firmfeel, US CarTool, RMS  is a few.

[HP2]

Having read information regarding suspension setups I find it difficult to believe that the horse and cart type suspension as originally fitted to these motors can be as good as a modern coilover setup, because if that were the case my SRT8 would have leaf springs rather than the Mercedes inspired arrangement that it has?

For 100 years now, there have only been 4 ways to suspend a vehicle; leaf, coil, torsion, and air. All have inherent advantages and disadvantages that automakers hype as revolutionary from generation to generation. The coil springs in your Mercedes inspired Challenger are compact, and lightweight, but they also require additional suspension components to control fore, aft, and lateral motion that take up additional space and add weight.  Many different manufacturers are keying in on coil systems over the last couple of decades. They are in vogue right now. That isn't to say the "horse and cart" type of suspension on the early Challenger is superior, but it isn't as antiquated as you might think.

The classic's torsion bar front suspension is still widely used by any number of manufacturers still today, not the least of which is Porsche. Its low center of gravity, 1:1 motion ratios, and compact size make it work very functionally when tuned to the desired application. Additionally, the classic mopars geometry was way ahead of its time in the era and is still very functional today. The only two drawbacks to the original design is its lack of positive caster, which can be overcome with aftermarket upper control arms, and bump steer, which can be address with specialized kits. Address those two items, step up the rates and shocks and you have a nearly modern set up.

The classic's leaf spring suspension is similarly advanced for its time. It performs so well in fact, the only real drawback it has is it's weight.  The classic mopar leaf spring is wider than all its competitors. This provides a high degree of roll resistance. Its asymmetrical design allows it to have a rigid front segment for putting down power, with a long rear segment that maintains ride quality. Its splayed mounting arrangement helps tighten up cornering response. Using a modern leaf design with the proper matched spring rate, berlin eyes, diamond tipped ends, and Teflon interliners can produce an excellent ride with excellent handling characteristics. If weight is a concern, you can go with fiberglass  mono-leafs that produce many of the same attributes.

I'd highly encourage some research into the Hotchkis Sport suspension systems or offerings from Firm Feel Inc for means to significantly step up the performance of the stock based system without dumping buckets of money into coil over conversions or full frame conversions.

[70chall440]

While it may "seem" improbable that the "horse and cart" style suspension can work commensurate with more modern designs, I can assure you that there are many cars here in the US (of all brands) using this system and putting a spanking on the newer cars on the race tracks and streets around the US. As stated there are a number of trade offs with every system, manufacturers attempt to cater to the masses and use systems that give them the best of all scenarios while remaining committed to the overall design and cost effectiveness. In other words, manufacturers do not use what is best for any specific application typically (for mass produced cars sold to the greater community, not referring to super and hyper cars). That said, the Mercedes inspired suspension of your Challenger is very effective and does very well (I own one as well); however that doesn't mean that other systems don't work or even work as well. Cars and especially custom, old and/or modified cars are all about subjectiveness, perception and preference; what one person likes/wants is not universally accepted; some will agree others will not. Bottom line is that a car is what you make it or want it to be. Building a restomod E body is awesome if that is what you like; if it is just something that looks cool then you will forever be picking it apart and not being as good as something else. Most of us on this forum grew up with these cars and as such have a love for them. I can say without hesitation that my 2010 Challenger is much more refined than ether of my "old" E bodies and I love it, however I love my 70 Challenger and 73 Cuda for what they are; not what they aren't, I accept them for what they were designed as and what they are now. Can an 70's era be made to handle, stop, etc as well as a modern LX? Sure, it is well represented on this forum. That said, are they the same at the end of the day? No, they are different vehicles. This doesn't mean one is better than the other, it is all about perception, acceptance, desire, enjoyment, etc and what is important to you.

Sorry for the rant, its one of those days.

[UK petrol head]

thanks for the input, the Hotchkiss challenger is very impressive in the you tube clip.. I need to get one bought and feel the inspiration..

[70chall440]

be careful, you will get the "bug" and then there is no stopping.... it is as much an addiction as any drug and just as expensive if not more (depending on your habit). 

[UK petrol head]

Just need one of you fine people from the good old USA to find me a suitable machine which I can make into a thing of beauty then I can terrorise all those euroboxes with boring 2ltr diesel engines... When I first bought the SRT8 I had a Porsche up my backside, one stab of the accelerator and he was never seen again. I swear I saw it trembling

[70chall440]

Ebay is your friend... I am sure there are a number of people/companies who would/could inspect a potential vehicle for you, in fact I am pretty sure there are companies who will go out and find you a vehicle that meets your specs/requirements.

[soundcontrol]

Did they ever make any e-bodys for export with right side steering wheel? Must be weird driving a US import in the UK...

[70chall440]

they definitely exported them, however I am not sure if Chrysler did the conversion or someone else. I have seen E bodies in Australia that were converted but I know it was done locally (very nice job I have to say).

[soundcontrol]

Got curious, found this, wow, that must be a hell of a job!
(And I'm worried about moving my starter to the passenger side for the NAG1 tranny...)


..but check out the console in the interior picture!



http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969872064

[70chall440]

Why move the starter?

[soundcontrol]

It's just on the passenger side when I change to the NAG1 tranny, (I'm doing a Gen III Hemi swap) and theres no headers for the combination I have so I have to modify them, or come up with another solution. But I'm staring out using my old 727 for a while.

[70chall440]

understand. never easy.

[crewchief]

Our green70 challenger is equipped with Hotchkis suspension components front and rear. My son and I have been tearing up autocross track for the last 2 summers with it. My son won Lincoln, Nebr. GOODGUYS event this summer, top 5 car the last 2 years at GOODGUYS in Des Moines Ia.; tied for 2nd at the in the Street Machine Challenge,and 3rd fastest time overall between ALL cars new and old  at the Street Machine Nationals in St.Paul, Mn. a Go to Hotchkis website and our car is on their video for the event recap, pictures on their facebook page, had a cameo appearance on Detroit Muscle tv show and is on the add for next years Street Machine Nationals in St.Paul. So with that yes HOTCHKIS is a VERY good way to go, great group of guys there from people that answer phones all the way up to John Hotchkis himself (you will find him helping with autox events knee deep in the action) and it  keeps the car pure to it's original suspension design. The suspension works better then most of us can drive!! LOL.
P.S. I do recommend getting there geometry corrected upper controls arms right a way, I started with just a set of adjustable type which worked very good, then switch to Hotchkis control arms and there is a noticeable difference all the way around including infinite adjustability, handling, especially at corner turn in even greenhorn drivers like us could feel it. Most people can't believe it still has torsion bars. HOTCHKIS stuff works.