BB Intake Manifold valley pan gasket or valley tray - discuss

[GreenFish]

as the subject suggests,

I've always just used the pan gasket but I've seen the tray that separates the gasket from the center cover. Why would one use this and what is the advantage or disadvantage.

Ive also seen some that only work with certain hears. What do I need to know, I like the look and am thinking of going with the trick looking tray.

[dfrazz]

I installed the Fel-Pro 1215 (2 gaskets plus the valley pan).  I wanted to block off the heat crossover and a good seal for the valley gasket with both the block and intake.  When I removed the old intake, the PO only had the valley pan with no heat crossover block and no additional gaskets.  I did not have any leak that I noticed, but wanted the extra "insurance" while I was swapping the intake out.

[HP_Cuda]

I went the same direction with Frazz but I only used one gaskey below the valley pan and it has worked out great for me.

With the M1 intake it was a real PITA to try and make 2 gaskets work.

[GreenFish]

Who uses these? Is what I was getting at

http://www.manciniracing.com/valleytrays.html

[Chryco Psycho]

GENERALLY  these are used with raised intake port heads as the intake gasket will not line up with both the ports & block , they work well to a point but often one head needs to be removed to remove the plate , this is a royal pain if you are doing a cam swap for example , some of the better designs are 2 peice so the plate can be removed without pulling a head , some have removable panels allowing access under the plate without removing it entirely . The other issue is some intake interfere with the plate as it is flat where the gasket pan curves downward .

[brads70]

I'd suggest a 2 piece design such as these   http://arengineering.com/home-page/valley-plates/

I made my own.... problem with making them is I'd like to have the engine really close to test fit as I went...

[larry4406]

What did the factory use?  Without the pan the lifter gallery is wide open.

In high school I used the FelPro pan on my 440 without additional gaskets.

[Chryco Psycho]

Tthe factory just used the pan with no extra gaskets , the aftermarket supplies the extra gaskets which I typically use 2 under the pan but never above the pan , the extra thickness with the gaskets makes it virtually impossible to got most intakes to fit especially if the block has been zero decked to the correct factory spec as virtually every block is higher than the deck height spec  .
 rechek the intake bolt torque often as they will always loosen after a few heat cycles

[Mopar Mitch]

The extra fiber side gaskets were originally introduced as OE by MaMopar ONLY for the '69 aluminum 440-6pack intake mfld... this installed at the factory -- top and bottom of the metal valley pan.   The purpose of the extra fiber pcs was to compensate for the probability of slight warpage with the aluminum mfld-- charachteristic of any/all aluminum mflds.

The side face fiber gaskets (technically called "Supplemental" gaskets) is advised, and can be used, as extra insurance for all BB Mopar valley pan gaskets/intakes... in consideration of age (warping, corrsion, etc) and block/head resurfacing... to also bring back some correct geometry.

For a true restoration, only the '69 440-6 aluminum intakes recvd these supplemental fiber side face gaskets used in conjunction with the metal valley pan gasket.

Also, because of the design of the factory intake mfds, there needs to be some type of intake "valley" plate (ie: pan gasket) to cover the area.... so, a 1-pc valley pan gasket design.   This is common even with many other older big/wide engines.    Pontiac V8s use a separate valley pan, and separate side gaskets.

(When I worked at Fel-Pro from 1976~1998 as an engineer, I was the lead tech-support person when we established a formal group... gave hundreds of gasket seminars across the country, wrote all the gasket set instructions, etc).  I stayed with Fel-Pro during the transition when Federal-Mogul bought them out in 1998... through 2006... working as an aftermarket tech/sales rep for FM.    Feel free to contact me with any gasket questions... I enjoy these discussions.

[Chryco Psycho]

one you zero deck the block & plane the heads getting even 1 pair of the fiber gaskets in is virtually impossible ,, I have seen numerous stripped intake bolt holes in the heads from crossthreading trying to make it fit together

[RDF]

Perfect topic for what I'm doing today......here's my question....440 with an Eddie intake on it with a tray.  I got a Mopar intake from a friend and am trying to install that.  When I take the intake off, the tray is still sealed to the block and hasn't "lifted" in any areas...also, there are no gaskets (which I don't think there are supposed to be).  Do I just put RTV on the new intake and bolt it back on or do I need to take off the tray, replace the gaskets on each side, then put a new tray on it and bolt the intake up?  I spoke with my dad about it (life-time mechanic) and he said I should do the latter only because I can't tell where the tray may have come loose and then I'd have an intake leak.

Thoughts/suggestions? 

[dfrazz]

Perfect topic for what I'm doing today......here's my question....440 with an Eddie intake on it with a tray.  I got a Mopar intake from a friend and am trying to install that.  When I take the intake off, the tray is still sealed to the block and hasn't "lifted" in any areas...also, there are no gaskets (which I don't think there are supposed to be).  Do I just put RTV on the new intake and bolt it back on or do I need to take off the tray, replace the gaskets on each side, then put a new tray on it and bolt the intake up?  I spoke with my dad about it (life-time mechanic) and he said I should do the latter only because I can't tell where the tray may have come loose and then I'd have an intake leak.

Thoughts/suggestions? 

Father knows best!   ALWAYS replace the gaskets!   

[RDF]

Father knows best!   ALWAYS replace the gaskets!   

ok, so that being said, do I need to replace the tray as well?  He mentioned I might want to do that since the original intake had already flattened the raised areas on the tray.  And help me make sure I got this right.....if I get a new tray then I take the old one off, clean the heads of the old gaskets, put the new gaskets on, then the tray, then RTV on the intake and bolt on?

[dfrazz]

ok, so that being said, do I need to replace the tray as well?  He mentioned I might want to do that since the original intake had already flattened the raised areas on the tray.  And help me make sure I got this right.....if I get a new tray then I take the old one off, clean the heads of the old gaskets, put the new gaskets on, then the tray, then RTV on the intake and bolt on?

All new everything (tray and gaskets).  Yes, remove all, clean, RTV (I used black) gasket to head, tray, then gasket, then manifold.

[RDF]

All new everything (tray and gaskets).  Yes, remove all, clean, RTV (I used black) gasket to head, tray, then gasket, then manifold.