Swaping out from a 727 to a close ratio 833

[Brillo1974]

I don't post much but I do read a lot on here and now I have a few questions. I have a 74 Ralley Challenger that I'm going to do the 833 close ratio 4 speed swap from the 727 auto. I will be getting the complete swap kit form Brewer's. Here are a few questions that I'm sure you E body Mopar nuts can answer. Yes I'm one now too. 

1) What all in the interior has to be removed to do the swap other than the obvious ( seats , console, carpet and pedal setup) does the steering column need to come out?
2) How hard is it to weld on the torque shaft bracket on the frame with the engine in and the steering column in the way?
3) What is the difference between the wood grained console top plate on the auto and the 4 speed? Brewers has it listed in my quote as needing to change it and it's $200 bucks?
4) I see they don't have anything listed on the quote for the speedo, what needs to be changed to run the speedo on the 4 speed?
5) Last question for now is with the close ratio 833 4 speed and 391 gears what RPM will I be running at 70 MPH? I do have my 323 gear I can swap back in if I need to, but I want to be able to light the tires up at will if I want. I'm also running a 360 LA with J heads and just a Comp Cams XE268H with .477/.480 lift. I plan on stroking it down the road but that's another thread. 

Any help would and will be appreciated with my stupid questions and any advice on something I haven't asked about. Thanks in advance.

[dfrazz]

#3 - the shifter hole is larger.  If you are skilled, you can modify your current one otherwise you will need the 4 spd console.  I personally like the shifter and boot without the console.  The pistol grip makes a statement all by itself.
#5 - what size rear tires do you have?

[Brillo1974]

#3 - the shifter hole is larger.  If you are skilled, you can modify your current one otherwise you will need the 4 spd console.  I personally like the shifter and boot without the console.  The pistol grip makes a statement all by itself.
#5 - what size rear tires do you have?

Whoops I forgot to mention the tire size, 245/60/15 front 275/60/15 rear. I set up the speedo on the 727 for a 27 inch tire in the rear and it's only running off 5 mph fast at a 100 mph. Where is the speedo gear running off from on the 4 speed?
I can do some modifying on the plate but the console itself will work won't it? Thanks!

[Chryco Psycho]

 Your final drive ratio is 1:1 with both transmissions so you can use the speedo drive from the Auto in the 4 spd the drive is located in roughly the same place  . the rpm will be very close but there is some slippage with autos so you may be a few like 50 rpm less with the 4 spd
 You need to remove seats & carpet to make the tunnel modification . The pedal is a simple mod  , remove the cross pin & brake pedal & install the longer pin with both pedals & the support bracket .
 The console can be made to work but you have to trim it to clear the shift boot but the front console mount will not work . the top plate is very different the hole is larger & located in a different place , I have seem people make a new top plate from alum & just apply a decal to it  .
 the frame bracket easy easy to weldin place with everything in place if you have a mig welder .

[Brillo1974]

Your final drive ratio is 1:1 with both transmissions so you can use the speedo drive from the Auto in the 4 spd the drive is located in roughly the same place  . the rpm will be very close but there is some slippage with autos so you may be a few like 50 rpm less with the 4 spd
 You need to remove seats & carpet to make the tunnel modification . The pedal is a simple mod  , remove the cross pin & brake pedal & install the longer pin with both pedals & the support bracket .
 The console can be made to work but you have to trim it to clear the shift boot but the front console mount will not work . the top plate is very different the hole is larger & located in a different place , I have seem people make a new top plate from alum & just apply a decal to it  .
 the frame bracket easy easy to weldin place with everything in place if you have a mig welder .

Thanks for the info, I kind of figured it would probably run about the same RPM. I'm not too keen on the looks of the console with the 4 speed, even the factory setup looks like it was an afterthought the way the boot sticks out under them. I may just save myself the $300 in parts and just take the console out but it's pretty much in perfect condition. I could sell it and get some of my money back. I do have a mig to weld in the bracket and floor hump so it's good to hear I don't need to tear too much apart.

[Brillo1974]

Can someone post some detailed pictures of their pedal setup so I can see where everything goes under there? I have no idea where the bracket goes or how the rod goes through the floor or hooks up. It would make my life a whole lot easier with pictures., any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Chryco Psycho]

no pix handy but the longer pedal shaft goes through both pedals & the extra support bracket is on the left side of the clutch pedal   , you will need to drill the 2 holes for the support brace that goes on the firewall side through the extra shaft support inside , there will be dimples in the firewall . there is an oval hole with a rubber plug in it this is where the rod goes through the firewall to the belcrank / z bar .

[Brillo1974]

no pix handy but the longer pedal shaft goes through both pedals & the extra support bracket is on the left side of the clutch pedal   , you will need to drill the 2 holes for the support brace that goes on the firewall side through the extra shaft support inside , there will be dimples in the firewall . there is an oval hole with a rubber plug in it this is where the rod goes through the firewall to the belcrank / z bar .

I kinda figured the plug had to come out but I was trying to tell how the bracket fit there and the dimples will help for lacing the bracket. Thanks a lot Chryco for the info it will come in handy when I get started on that part to save some head scratching.  I see the slot in the frame for the Z bar bracket that one is easy enough, hopefully I can figure out all the little pieces on the pedal setup. 

[dakota]

5) Last question for now is with the close ratio 833 4 speed and 391 gears what RPM will I be running at 70 MPH? I do have my 323 gear I can swap back in if I need to, but I want to be able to light the tires up at will if I want.

There are a couple of calculators available on the web for playing with different gear ratios and tire size to figure out RPM for a given speed or vice versa.   Here's one of the options:

http://www.ringpinion.com/calculators/calc_rpm.aspx

[70chall440]

For question #1 you will need to remove the seats, console and carpet. Don't worry too much about the size of hole you are going to need to put into the floor because the hump will cover it. Put the 4spd hump onto the floor and trace around it, remember to leave an edge (1/2" at least), that will tell you where it goes. You do not (read should not) remove all of the material under the hump, you need to only remove the amount you need for the shifter and handle to clear.

[Brillo1974]

For question #1 you will need to remove the seats, console and carpet. Don't worry too much about the size of hole you are going to need to put into the floor because the hump will cover it. Put the 4spd hump onto the floor and trace around it, remember to leave an edge (1/2" at least), that will tell you where it goes. You do not (read should not) remove all of the material under the hump, you need to only remove the amount you need for the shifter and handle to clear.

Don't you need to remove enough for the shift rods to clear the brace, do they (1st-4th rods) go over it or under it? I thought they went over? Would it not make for a cleaner look if you trace around the hump and just cut a 1/2" inside the line and weld it in? Thanks

[Chryco Psycho]

That is the way the factory did it , trace around the hump & cut 3/4 " inside the line all around

[Brillo1974]

That is the way the factory did it , trace around the hump & cut 3/4 " inside the line all around

Thanks I thought so.

[70chall440]

That works but you don't need to take that much out.

[Sleepychallenger]

I'll have to search but I think there are a lot of pictures in a thread from when Mopar AL and I did my swap