Author Topic: Help with brake install from scratch?  (Read 6842 times)

Offline Wadmin1021

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Help with brake install from scratch?
« on: December 16, 2015 - 07:28:16 PM »
I'm a new member to this forum but have read it many times.  I'm a female grease monkey who is helping her husband restore a 1971 Barracuda we purchased in February of this year.  We have just purchased all we need to install all new fuel system and just got the new gas tank, sending unit, and vent tube installed the other night.  Now for the fuel lines.

Once that's done, it's time for the brakes.  Has anyone ever put an entire brake system in their car before?  We have disc brakes in the front and drum brakes in the rear with no desire to upgrade the rear brakes to disc.  We have an FSM for the car but it doesn't really say anything about installing an entire brake system from scratch?  What's the best way to go about this?  We will need to buy most supplies so any favorite sites/stores?  Anyone with any pics on how their brake system is installed/routed would be much appreciated!   :feedback:

Anyway, thanks for your time and for all the great info we get on here from time to time!
https://youtu.be/OEKt5K71CDM

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'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT




Offline 70chall440

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015 - 08:36:50 PM »
I think I understand what you are asking, look at the FSM for each segment and take them one at a time;

Install the master cylinder
install the rear brakes onto the backing plates
install the rear drums
install the front rotors
install the front calipers
install the distribution and proportioning valves
install the front brake lines
install the rear brake lines
bleed the system

Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015 - 08:45:39 PM »
Thanks 70chall440! Luckily we already have the rear brake assembly and the drums (all new/reconditioned) all put back together with the emergency brake cable back in place. Drums back on. The front disc brake assembly is also done and ready to go.

So, from there, we first install the master cylinder, then the distribution and proportioning valve, then the front brake lines, then the rear brake lines, then bleed? Do you have any routing pics of the lines where and how they're supposed to go?


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A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015 - 09:32:11 PM »
I do not have any drawings, however if you do some searching on the internet you should find some pictures of peoples cars that will give you an indication of where the lines go. It is pretty straight forward; the line run from the MC down to the distribution valve, from there 2 lines go to the front brakes and one out the back to the proportioning valve, then on to the rear brake hard line end, then a soft ling to the rear end T and there to the drums.

Type "Cuda brake line routing" into Google and you will see lots of pictures that can help guide you.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015 - 10:37:06 PM »
Excellent thanks so much! I really appreciate your time!


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A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015 - 11:36:48 PM »
Not a problem at all, that is what this site and others like are for. Granted, there times people can be short, mean and a bit problematic but in general most are happy to share their passion of the hobby with others.

Re your brakes, remember that the front reservoir of your master cylinder feeds your rear brakes and the rear reservoir your front brakes. I would also recommend purchasing a power bleeder, granted it sounds like there are 2 of you working on the car (normally one person would pump and hold the brakes while the other opens the bleeder valve), but a power bleeder is so much easier and will give you better results. Also and in case you haven't seen/heard it previously, You should bleed your master cylinder (which you can do on the bench) and then you need to bleed the right rear brake first (furthest from the master cylinder), then the left rear, then the right front and then the left front. 

I assume you are buying all your lines (I make mine)? Regardless, the line nuts do not have to be "super" tight; yes they have to be tight but not like 2 hands and 1 foot braced on something tight. Sometimes getting the nuts to start can be a challenge, leaving all of the lines loose until all of the nuts are started helps. In other words, just get the nuts started and then go onto the next one, once you have them all started, you then go back and tighten them all. Check them a second time at least to make sure you didn't miss one. You will know as soon as you add pressure (power bleeder or foot method).

Brake lines do not require nor should you use any sealants (Teflon tape, Teflon paste, RTV, etc); the line nut pushes against the flare on the tube and subsequently pushes the brake line flare against the male flare inside of the fixture (master cylinder, valve, etc).

take note of the routing of your front soft/flexible brake lines, there is a right way and wrong way to route them. Do some Google searching and searching on this site for direction.

It isn't hard, just time consuming. Watch where your brake lines are routed even though it is in the stock position to ensure it is away from moving components and the exhaust. If it is near the exhaust and it cannot be moved or you do not want to move it, you need to shield it. Brake fluid can and will boil and you will lose braking capability.

For brake fluid, you have a number of choices DOT 3, 4, 5, ,5.1; each with different attributes (specifically composition and boiling point).  Your car used DOT 3 originally which is fine but be cautious with it as it eats paint. If you are interested in one of the other types, do your research so you can make an informed decision. I use 3 in stock cars or cars with existing stock lines, I use DOT 5 in my Cuda and 70 Challenger which I put brand new braking systems since it is silicone based verse glycol based (glycol is hydroscopic meaning it absorbs water from the atmosphere where as silicone is not). That said, DOT 5 is more expensive and not always available and does not (or is not supposed to) be compatible with DOT 3; so if you have an issue along the road with brakes and you cannot find DOT 5, you are hurting. Make sure you buy a brand new big bottle of brake fluid when you begin to bleed the system. You will not use it all, but you do not want to run out in the middle of the process. With DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 they absorb water so you are not supposed to use the fluid once it has been opened and exposed for very long (because there will be moisture in the fluid which will rust all of the steel components and possibly corrode the brake parts such as brake pistons, etc).

Hope this helps.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Edison1970

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2015 - 06:16:22 AM »
go to the archives section and look under reference pictures.  there should be some there.

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2015 - 08:51:10 PM »









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https://youtu.be/OEKt5K71CDM

A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2015 - 10:55:03 PM »
When I was buiolding these I would start with the lines then do suspension gas tank etc  , the lines are very straight forward , all of the brake lines are on the left side fuel on the right , you will have to fit the lines around the diff & suspension , start at the rear & work you way forward , I would recommend 3/8" fuel lines for a 440 btw , from the proportioning valve back there is only 1 brake line  . the fuel lines will have 2 feed & return from the vapor seperator , all of the clips snap into the frame & hold the lines , you will have approx 6" of rubber line each end of the fuel lines so the engine can move .

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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2015 - 10:57:02 PM »
Two things come to mind, at least in some Service Manuals the picture of disk brakes is backwards causing some confusion as to the orientation of the caliper, on E-Body's it goes to the front.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=109821.msg1081658#msg1081658

It might help to know that Odd numbered parts go on the left & Even numbers go on the right.. I had to reassemble not knowing this..

from my '73 but may help http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=62801.msg645330#msg645330

drums http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=62801.msg804857#msg804857
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015 - 11:01:35 PM by Bullitt- »
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2015 - 08:01:46 AM »
To be correct the engine bay should be body color not black , seeing as everything is still apart it would be a great time to change that if you are concerned about it .
 Not trying to insult you just trying to help out .

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Offline anlauto

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2015 - 08:13:26 AM »
Your upper control arm bolts are in backwards. :2cents:
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Offline 340challconvert

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015 - 10:57:01 AM »
Your upper control arm bolts are in backwards. :2cents:
  Good catch!
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Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015 - 11:22:30 AM »

As long as everyone is making suggestions:

The best one I have found is to drop the kmember altogether and mount the motor and tranny up using a dolly. This way you can mount practically everything up before putting it back in the car. Plugs, exhaust, alternator, intake, carb, etc...

I have done many many cars by dropping the motor through the top but with a paint job like yours this is the last place you want a mistake. If you search my build thread you will see how it all went together and I'm sure there are many more examples.

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Offline 70chall440

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Re: Help with brake install from scratch?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015 - 11:26:00 AM »
completely missed the engine compartment color, thought it was lighting.

I run my UCA bolts the same way because I find it easier to adjust. I do believe some cars were built this was as well; could have been a mistake but I know I have seen some bone stock unaltered cars with the bolts this way.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)