1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof

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    Author Topic: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof  (Read 5279 times)

    Offline BAM

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    1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « on: January 26, 2016 - 07:22:30 AM »
    Hello all,

    as few of you know, i have a challenger and I`m starting the restoration now. the biggest problem is that the roof was cut down about 30 years ago and the car made sort of convertible...

    now, we are ready to reattach the roof structure, change the roof brace and A pillars.

    The roof exists together with the original skin which is in very bad condition. the question is:

    how should this be reattached considering that i will have to change all the above? what`s the order of the parts? should we keep the existing roof skin until the roof structure is welded back in or remove it first?
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    Offline Edison1970

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016 - 08:01:44 AM »
    I have never done it before but I would make some steel bracing and weld them from the floor to attaching points throughout the roof structure.  Almost like a jig for the frame.  Notate the attaching points and attach the new structure to the same points.  Depending on how bad it is, remove the roof skin first and maybe replace one section at a time. 
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    Offline BAM

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016 - 08:10:13 AM »
    Quote from: Edison1970 on January 26, 2016 - 08:01:44 AM
    I have never done it before but I would make some steel bracing and weld them from the floor to attaching points throughout the roof structure.  Almost like a jig for the frame.  Notate the attaching points and attach the new structure to the same points.  Depending on how bad it is, remove the roof skin first and maybe replace one section at a time.

    OK, but what would be the order?

    1. pillars
    2. roof structure
    3. roof brace (all 3 of them including the windshield top metal thing)

    or

    3.
    1.
    2.

    or something else?
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    Offline TelisSE440

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #3 on: January 26, 2016 - 02:20:04 PM »
    This is a difficult matter and I don't think I will help a lot. If you change the roof skin, there is really no need in welding the whole structure to the car. You remove the skin and then install the skeleton. I'm afraid that -because it is a 30 year old car without its roof- the car might have a slight warp, so the structure installation is a must. The roof skin is not so important, as it is very easy to tweak. Unfortunately the braces are not.

    1. Pillars
    2. Roof structure (with the upper windshield top metal thing), so you can align it.
    3. Roof brace, the last two pieces.

    All the parts HAVE to be pre-aligned ON the car before welding.
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    Offline AARTA340

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #4 on: January 26, 2016 - 02:49:44 PM »
    Is it possible to post some close ups of the cut down area. I am thinking the roof and frames will need to be fitted and windows insured they fit the roof contour before any welding is done. The pictures will help others to offer suggestions.  :popcorn:
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    Offline TelisSE440

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016 - 03:46:27 PM »
    AARTA340 is right, post some pics, the body guys will understand exactly what's needed.
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    Offline BAM

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016 - 02:33:14 AM »
    Thanks guys, i will try to get to the garage tomorrow and take some pictures. if i take into considerations the door gaps, fender gaps, etc, i think the car did not twist or bend at all.
    As soon as the roof was cut, the car was parked (back in 1986)

    For the moment, i don`t have the roof skin as i want to acquire more parts and ship them all together (for shipping cost purposes)

    i will take the pictures from inside the car and hopefully, you will also provide some exact measurements (the small shapes of the structure).

    anyway, thanks guys for the support
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    Offline BAM

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016 - 04:04:40 AM »
    I`m attaching some pictures to see how and where the roof was cut. If you need more pictures to better understand, please tell me how and from which angles to take them.

    Now, i removed the roof from it`s place and removed the metal attached on the edges in the back. Apparently, the structure was not affected or altered in any way (no missing parts).

    I would appreciate if anyone can give me some exact measurements of those holes for a better fitment. I believe that about 3-6mm are missing from there due to the grinder blade...
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    Offline TelisSE440

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016 - 05:27:50 AM »
    First of...  :swear:  Now, as I see the picture and clearing the situation, is nothing of what I had in mind. The factory installed parts should not be harmed, that is "don't touch the pillars yet" They will provide you the factory provisions for the roof skeleton and braces. Now there is a dilemma, is your body guy an expert ? I mean an expert like a sculptor... Because you need to prealign everything in order to weld it properly, even the old roof needs to be prealigned because, as you say some mm were hacked off due to grinding, or even a little warp ( I too believe the car is ok). To do that you need all the glass (windshield back glass windows quarter glasses) and align the new braces with the new roof on the old pillars and then mark the sheet metal of where you'll be welding it. I think of welding the whole structure is a little overkill, but removing the roof, then welding the whole skeleton (with the old braces) on the old pillars- front brace should be a must, AFTER prealigning the window and windshields their respective chassis frames, which would give you the real dimension of the metal grinded and how it should be welded properly. If your guy is an expert and knows what he does, then no problem at all. But if you don't mind paying the extra money for the welding- aligning the whole roof and then again cutting welding, I believe it would be the best.

    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=91959.0
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    Offline hemiken

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016 - 05:45:24 AM »
    I :iagree: i myself would get a uncut set of side window channels to hold the original structure in the correct location to the A-pillars and wind the rear quarter windows up on both sides to fit in to the rubber in the channels to hold the rear of the roof in the correct height and location as a starting point personally.
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    Offline BAM

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #10 on: January 29, 2016 - 07:43:39 AM »
    I don't personally know how the welder is...it has been recommended to me by someone else...

    The problem is that there are no real professionals on the island as far as i know. The ones claiming that they know what they are doing, asked me 10.000€ for this weld...
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    Offline TelisSE440

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016 - 10:39:44 AM »
    Quote from: BAM on January 29, 2016 - 07:43:39 AM
    ... asked me 10.000€ for this weld...

    I know the Greek answer to their request... Anyway, ask the guy you have now, how much he would take, to do the whole thing.
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    Offline rUNCHARGER

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #12 on: January 29, 2016 - 11:27:16 AM »
    Too bad convt. parts are so expensive and hard to obtain....

    Sheldon
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    Offline TelisSE440

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #13 on: January 29, 2016 - 02:24:36 PM »
    BAM I know this may sound a little far fetched, but have you thought of working the car on your own for the bodywork ? I can understand if you don't know at all, but sometimes this may save you a lot of money... Just a thought.
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    Offline AussieMark

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    Re: 1970 Challenger - reattaching the roof
    « Reply #14 on: January 30, 2016 - 02:43:33 AM »
    Quote from: hemiken on January 29, 2016 - 05:45:24 AM
    I :iagree: i myself would get a uncut set of side window channels to hold the original structure in the correct location to the A-pillars and wind the rear quarter windows up on both sides to fit in to the rubber in the channels to hold the rear of the roof in the correct height and location as a starting point personally.
    I agree with Kenny getting some uncut inner inside channels will get rid of a lot of guess work and make the job more straight forward. If you use the ones you have you will spend a lot of time trying to line up the correct position and even then you won't know if it is correct until it is too late.
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