At worlds end with no spark

[734406pk]

However, I certianly need to check the proper way for a mag p/u distro, and thats by jumping the violet and green wires thats in the connector that is not used in my application.

Yes and also check to see if you have 12 volts available to the MSD box while the engine is cranking. The factory electronic ignition equipped cars had 2 different power wires to the Chrysler ignition module.

[DocMel]

Ok.  Just re-read the instructions

For mag p/u:

I should be using the violet and green connector off the msd box: This would eliminate the white MSD wire completley

Msd shows that the violet wire from the msd attaches to orange from the distro, and the green wire from the MSD attaches to the black wire from the distro

But I have three wires coming from my  distro: Red , orange and a black:   So which color distro wires goes to what color wires (violet or green) from the MSD box?   

Of course the MSD line is closed today

[734406pk]

Here is a copy and paste from their website: Magnetic Pickup Trigger:

If you are using the 2-Pin Magnetic Pickup of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.

    Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
    Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
    Disconnect the MSD Magnetic Pickup connector from the distributor.
    Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
    With a small jumper wire, short the Green and Violet magnetic pickup wires together then pull the jumper off. Each time the short is removed a spark should jump If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.

If there is no spark:

    Inspect all of the wiring.
    Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.
    If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.
    After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service Page for Information.

And the link:
http://www.msdperformance.com/page.aspx?id=3206

[DocMel]

Holy ----   This is from the MSD tech forum   (Its exactly the way I have my summit mag p/u wired) : The below original posting  also specifically states the wiring of the same exact distro I have  (The 3 colored wires from my the distro stated below are also the same)

FROM THE POST:

orange to white on msd box
red to 12 volts ignition
black ground
__________________
msdforms@msdperformance.com

So testing would be by the white wire tech, as I have been doing  I have my set up wired exactly as stated below

Who knows........I had started to think I need to use the violet and green wire connector wires from the MSD to the distro, not the white wire?

[734406pk]

You can download the MSD instructions from this link. Type your model info in the search box and a PDF file should come up.
http://www.msdperformance.com/instructiondownload.aspx

[DocMel]

Thanks: but I have had all of the instructions since the original installation.   

The prob now is do I hook up the new distro using the MSD white wire, or do I use the violet and green wire connector with this new distro.   I am thinking the violet and green for mag p/u distros  (Im using the white wire hook up diagram now, w/no spark at plugs, but have a rocking spark at the coil lead)

BUT:  If you read the chrysler diagram in the msd instructions, it does show one  diagram not using the white msd wire altogether, and using the msd violet and green wires to hook up to the distributor:   But I have THREE wires coming from my distro:   Red, orange and black. 

The MSD diagram shows an example of a distro with only two wires coming from it:   Orange and black

So how does my 3 wire distro fit it in the 2 wire distro MSD diagram ?

[734406pk]

What brand distributor do you have? Also are you connecting it to an MSD 6AL box with the soft touch rev limiter dials on it? P/N 6420?

[734406pk]

I see in you original post you are running a Summit distributor. Would you have the part number for it?

[734406pk]

I think you may have the wrong distributor. A 3 wire unit is a "ready to run distributor" and doesn't use an ignition box. The 6AL may not be triggered with this Summit distributor. Check the Summit P/N and post back and I'll check the schematic. You can try running ignition power direct to the red wire on the distributor and connecting the orange distributor wire to the coil neg terminal. Black wire remains grounded. Apply 12 volts pos to the coil pos terminal. Crank the engine and check for spark. This will eliminate the MSD box and check the distributor electronic module.

[DocMel]

440:  Thanks for keeping with me:

The distro is SUM-850420, a mag p/u distro, with a red, orange and black wire coming from it

The MSD box is a  MSD6a,  PIN 6201, no rev limiter

I wish I could post the MSD diagrams here internally to make it easier, but Ill try to explain what I have done so far;

MSD states that ready to run distros can be used with or without a MSD box.  (Like if you just wanted to run a MSD coil on a RTR distro)   But MSD boxes can be used on a RTR distro)

-My new summit distro I wired with the white wire trigger  (see diagram at bottom half of page 11 in the MSD instructions) .   
If you look at the diagram, the diagram works perfectly with the red, orange and black leads coming from my distro. 
 BUT: While I get no park at the plugs, I do get a hot spark at the coil lead using the white wire troubleshooting guide

Then I looked at the diagram on the bottom half of page 19:   This one shows NOT using the white wire, and using the violet and green MSD wires to attach to a mag p/u distro.   But I don't see where my three wires on my distro, (red, orange and green) fit into this diagram, which only allows two wires coming from a mag P/U distro going to two wires (green and violet) at the MSD box


Ive got an email in to MSD:  I guess Ill see where that goes

[734406pk]

You have the wiring correct for use with an MSD RTR distributor w/ built in amplifier. Its unclear if the Summit RTR distributor is able to trigger the MSD 6201. You have been able to trigger it manually by grounding the white wire on and off to produce a spark at the coil (simulates breaker points) so the MSD 6201 seems to be working. Do you have spark output at the coil with the engine cranking (using the Summit RTR distributor as the trigger for the MSD 6201)?

[734406pk]

It's pretty hard to have spark at the coil wire and not have spark at the plug wires unless the rotor is shorted out as Chryco stated.

As you stated that you had installed a new distributor, the shorted rotor would be highly unlikely assuming the new distributor came with a new rotor and a new cap and you used them when installing the new distributor.  With the poor quality control of new parts that we so often see these days, all things are possible, but, I would think it is a very small percentage.

If you still have spark at the coil wire when you check it, I think I would pull a plug and a plug wire off another vehicle, remove one of your plug wires and replace it with the borrowed wire and plug and lay this plug on the valve cover so that it is grounded.  Then crank the engine over and watch the gap on the plug laying on the cover to see if it is sparking.

If I did not have spark at the coil wire, I would disconnect the msd box and go to the parts store and buy a cheap mopar box and install it...being sure that I grounded it well to the firewall or some other convenient ground and try that with your new distributor.  At this point, assuming that you do indeed have a good coil wire spark, that should not be required.

Also, I usually pull the distributor out and spin it with my fingers for spark testing to save fouling the plugs with raw gas while troubleshooting if I don't find the problem immediately.  Wet plugs often do not show a spark.

Good point Strawdawg! Is it possible that everything is working as it should and you have 8 fouled spark plugs? Test for spark at the plug wire by taking the wire off the plug and using a phillips screw driver (or a spark checker)in its place. Lay the screw driver on the valve cover etc about 1/4"-1/2" from touching and have someone crank over the engine. Check for spark at the gap. If you have spark then its time to change the plugs.

[DocMel]

Yes : Thats how I have checked for spark at the plugs.   I've only been using #6 and #5 since they are the easiest to get to.  And I replaced ALL of the plugs as a matter of course before I started with this recent whole mess

It really has me stumped, and allot of the posts on the net concerning MSD customer service and their tech line is not very reassuring at this point, but there really isn't another choice at this point   

I just tried wiring just using the distro with the MSD coil  (and no MSD box) by that diagram and still no spark at plugs

[734406pk]

Yes, I am familiar with poor customer service issues and hopefully we can solve your problem without taking that direction. Troubleshooting an ignition problem is just a process of elimination, so ... Right now the MSD box is out of the picture and the Summit RTR distributor is wired in directly to the coil and 12 volts positive. When you crank the engine, do you have spark output from the coil wire to a good ground?

[roadman5312]

However, I certianly need to check the proper way for a mag p/u distro, and thats by jumping the violet and green wires thats in the connector that is not used in my application.

Yes and also check to see if you have 12 volts available to the MSD box while the engine is cranking. The factory electronic ignition equipped cars had 2 different power wires to the Chrysler ignition module.

                                                12 plus volts while cranking.  ??