Author Topic: Quarter Seam  (Read 4557 times)

Offline glovemeister

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Quarter Seam
« on: February 17, 2016 - 01:13:57 AM »
Looking to fix this area for good, without leading.

I've seen two methods discussed.

1st one, cut out the seam entirely and butt weld it.
2nd one, weld the seam solid then grind and then fill the seam with a piece of metal and weld that solid, followed by filler.

Any suggestions?
1971 Challenger RT




Offline AARTA340

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016 - 02:59:54 PM »
Vinyl top or painted roof?

Offline Edison1970

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016 - 04:01:10 PM »
You might want to look through the posts here over the past two months. The discussion got a little heated from what I remember over this subject..  :22yikes:

Offline jimynick

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016 - 11:06:31 PM »
Why would you cut it? That'd just weaken the area and make it flex more- not what you want. I gave this some thought myself and finally brazed them up on my car and will fill them. It's a vinyl roof car and I don't give a rat's a$$ that it's not "original" but DO enjoy the thought that those are 2 areas that won't crack nor leak into my trunk. Just my  :2cents:

Offline Rich G

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2016 - 12:11:24 AM »
I'd make sure it's clean and rust free and use a good fiberglass reinforced body filler. I did that on a 73 Cuda and 20yrs later it was still good. I think the key is in the prep.

Offline AARTA340

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016 - 03:24:02 AM »
I was hoping the OP would have chimed in as to which roof it was, as it narrows down what to share so as not to be confusing.

First either method needs preparation so no contaminates will cause cracks or lifting.

Vinyl roof, body filler is just fine, as in the event there is cracking of the patch down the road of time, it will be covered by the roof. Factory method.

Painted Roof.

Many ways to do it. Lead is preferred by many, as it stretches with the body flex and that is why the factory used it. Yes over time it still may crack, but most have survived 40+ years with no cracks. Some don't like lead due to the toxicity of it and choose other methods that have worked.

I have seen where a strip of metal is welded in over the seam allowing a thinner coat of filler, versus filling up the deep seam of about 1/4-3/8 inch. Obviously thinner filler equates to less likely-hood of cracking.

I had not considered the brazing, but in thinking about it, it is softer than steel , and easier to work with. It will stretch and flex as well. Most likely a good choice other than lead.

I have heard of guys using JB Weld. I am not sure about this as it may be quite brittle especially after being subjected to sun light.  :dunno: :clueless:

One thing I would never do, is cut the metal and but weld, if this is done, all the strength of the overlap is lost , thus creating an even weaker seam.

Hope this helps, good luck on the method you choose. :cheers:

Offline Topcat

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016 - 10:14:26 AM »
I wouldn't recommend brazing. It cooks the sheet metal making it weaker.
Metal molecules move away from concentrated heat. 
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline AARTA340

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016 - 01:13:13 PM »
I wouldn't recommend brazing. It cooks the sheet metal making it weaker.
Metal molecules move away from concentrated heat.

I was thinking along those lines as well as I was typing all that up last night. It may be feasible, if it was applied in small amounts so as not to overheat the metal. :dunno: :clueless: I would probably use body filler and apply as thin as possible if mine and I did not want to fuss with the lead.  :2cents:

Offline Topcat

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016 - 11:44:24 PM »
Here's my story on brazing:

Back in 2000, this guy I was hanging out with said "lets braze the A pillar areas together."
We used the welding heat absorbing clay around the perimeters so as not to warp outer sheet metal.

It took about a half hour or so to do each side. He used alot of heat to puddle the braze around.
His business went belly up and I was forced to move the Cuda to a field for a few years covered up.

Years later, I started doing the body work and the left pillar area we did was as fragile as potato chips.
If I didn't try using an ice pick checking it, I would have a major nightmare on my hands later on.

Bottom line: the metal was weakened.
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline js29no

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016 - 11:09:27 AM »
The heat processes starts the rust processes! if you can't get to the back side of the metal and dress it, it not A matter of if but when it will rust. :working:

Offline glovemeister

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016 - 02:02:08 PM »
The car was originally a vinyl top. I would really prefer to have a painted roof.

My thought was to go at it as I was going to have a painted roof, with the exception of filling in the vinyl trim holes.

Should I get to the end and find out my skills with fixing these seams or rust in the roof is not as good as I hoped, I can throw a top on there which looks better than bad body work.

Also,  can anyone get a picture of the driver's side fender apron/inner fender and its attachment point to the cowl/firewall area? I noticed that my inner fender seam is semi angled down  towards the driver side ground. I also noticed what seems to be cracks in the metal at this attachment point.  Trying to figure out where it needs to go/look like to fix it.

Also, I have the drivers side a pillar cleaned and probably 50% of the metal is eaten away in the gasket area. It had a patch brazed on. Not as bad on passenger side, but not perfect either. New pillars should also fix the eaten out window channel in the lower corner.

I am on the fence as to whether to buy driver's and passenger a pillars or try to fix what I have. Any suggestions either way?

Thanks
1971 Challenger RT

Offline AARTA340

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016 - 04:47:17 PM »
Not sure where you are referring to for a picture, so I will pass on that and let someone else chime in. A picture of the exact area of concern would be helpful.

As far as the pillars, I have heard the new ones are less than desirable. Not knowing this for sure would make me hesitant of installing new ones and maybe order new ones and piece in the bad areas. Again, pictures are of great benefit when asking for suggestions.  :2thumbs:

Offline tommie69

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016 - 07:19:49 AM »
I will be looking to do this soon too! So I am interested as well. I just got my new Mopar Muscle magazine in , and they do an article on this very issue!  Looks like they used the fiberglass hair? They just word it as " filler base" But by looking at the picture it sure looks like what I said the fiberglass " gorilla hair" ! they also recommend the seam  be taken down to bare metal. Not on top of epoxy  primer! Which I thought you always wanted to have epoxy primer under all filler ? I guess everyone has there opinion!  Take a look  and see what you think.

Offline rhamson

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016 - 12:02:29 PM »
Looking to fix this area for good, without leading.

I've seen two methods discussed.

1st one, cut out the seam entirely and butt weld it.
2nd one, weld the seam solid then grind and then fill the seam with a piece of metal and weld that solid, followed by filler.

Any suggestions?
I chose to lead mine as I am going for a painted roof. The car was originally a vinyl roof and the pitting and rust that it left convinced me that painting it was the way to go. The stretching and flex lead allows is what convinced me. I welded the short weak spot where the quarter panel meets the rear window and roof. I have had two Challengers and both had a crack there because the factory only spot welded a tab below the window where it meets the rear roof pillar. It is up to you as I have seen it welded with a filler strip but you have to be very careful of the heat and if you use a mig method I have seen on a hot day a distortion in the sunlight.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016 - 12:04:43 PM by rhamson »

Offline jimynick

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Re: Quarter Seam
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016 - 09:39:07 PM »
Well, I don't know how many patches you lads have brazed on, but I've done 100's and not one, repeat, not one, ever crumbled and fell off. If you find adjacent sheet metal that's punky- it was punky beforehand. Also, the problem with the "brazing heat poorly affects the sheet metal" is that MIG welding induces a hell of a lot MORE heat, so where do you stop with the heat-is-bad idea? Chevy brazed 1/4's for years and VW does it to  this day! If you've really got your knickers in a twist, do it the way the factory did- spot weld the flanges and seam seal the gap. Then you won't have to worry over what weld procedure to use. Here endeth the sermon. Do it your way.  :cheers: