Converting to power brakes -- opening a can of worms...

[shadango]

Well, I have been super busy with work, dealing with knee surgery and recovery and other stuff.....I haven't done muc with the fish besides drive it a handful of times over the winter.

I have had the itch though lately.  You all know the itch.....wanna do "something"  to the car.

Well a big motor swap is out of the question right now.

But how about a power brake conversion?

I have a non power brake car -- converted to disks in the front (mopar calipers and disks) and the rear (an SBC kit).

The car stops OK and in a hurry if I really give it the pepper....but getting older and thinking that power brakes might be nice.

I have a Dr Diff aluminum master cylinder on it now along with the stock distribution block and a wilwood manual proportioning valve on the back circuit. I think the prop valve is actually wide open though at this point.

So....could I get away with just swapping the pushrod and adding the vac assist unit? Or would the distribution block need swapped too?

The other question I have is that this 318 has a big purple cam in it....and from past tests I know it doesnt produce tons of vacuum.  I have seen cars running cams and vacuum cans etc...what do you guys recommend?

Thanks all!

[Bullitt-]

if you have power steering consider a hyroboost http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=110808.msg1091984#msg1091984

[brads70]

   That's what I'm considering. I don't like relying on vacuum.   There is a few businesses with kits. You will need a bigger bore M/C than what you have now.   

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/Mopar_E_Body.html

http://www.tallonhydraulics.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=48_85

[dave73chally]

Brad, are you going with a kit or using an astro van setup? I've been trying to source an astro van booster and all the local yards want $100. I can buy a reconditioned booster for $120.

I have manual brakes currently, will the stock pushrod to brake pedal work with the astro booster?

[brads70]

Brad, are you going with a kit or using an astro van setup? I've been trying to source an astro van booster and all the local yards want $100. I can buy a reconditioned booster for $120.

I have manual brakes currently, will the stock pushrod to brake pedal work with the astro booster?

I don't think the Astro van linkage will work so that needs to be changed/modified.  I have an Astro van unit here now . It's crimped on.  I figured by the time I buy the wildwood M/C, lines, hose fittings and build a adapter plate, I might as well just get the kit bolt it in and be done with it. Everything is new with the Talon kit.

[dave73chally]

I don't think the Astro van linkage will work so that needs to be changed/modified.  I have an Astro van unit here now . It's crimped on.  I figured by the time I buy the wildwood M/C, lines, hose fittings and build a adapter plate, I might as well just get the kit bolt it in and be done with it. Everything is new with the Talon kit.

That's the same I'm finding. From what I calculated I'd only save around $100 bucks. Are you sold on tallon or hydratech? I'm between the 2

[Bullitt-]

nice looking job someone did on a C-body with salvage yard parts ... low cost..
http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/hydroboost-conversion-on-a-65-fury-3.14443/

[CUDA JAS]

I don't think the Astro van linkage will work so that needs to be changed/modified.  I have an Astro van unit here now . It's crimped on.  I figured by the time I buy the wildwood M/C, lines, hose fittings and build a adapter plate, I might as well just get the kit bolt it in and be done with it. Everything is new with the Talon kit.

Brad say it aint so...you are going to buy a kit!!!

That's my plan to...Hydro boost...but I was not planning on a kit.  and it probably wont be until next winter...so 

[GreenFish]

another plug for a hydroboost kit. I dont have one, but intend to next as soon as my EFI swap project is done and I can come up with more cash. I had power brakes before with the stock vacuum system and with a big cam it sucked. Sucked so bad I swapped to manual brakes. I want to go to a hydroboost soon. 

[shadango]

Why is relying on PS pressure any better than relying on vacuum (assuming there is enough?)? Cans dont work well?

Hydratech appears to be new just like the Talon...their site says they no longer offer reman units.

When I first saw this new info this morning, with the links, I saw the $565 price tag and thought  "COOOOL!"

But then I realized you have to also buy the added separates...so more like $900.  Ouch.

I may be able to reuse my current Mopar M/C as it seems to be the same one....that would save $80

If I went this way, though,  I still think I would go the kit route.....probably cheaper to source parts yourself but I like the idea of a) not having to eliminate the firewall plate b)being able to use a standard M/C so it connects directly to my current  brake lines (I hate dealing with cutting and flaring new lines) and c) its all engineered to just bolt in.

Getting high pressure hoses made, changing fittings, altering parts etc all takes money and patience....LOL...and also we are talking brakes here....would rather not try and build my own stuff if someone has already engineered, built and tested a kit to be reliable and SAFE.

Anyone have pictures of these systems installed???

Wonder how much a difference in appearance there is from the base prep versus "street" ($75 option) versus "show" ($175 option) when its installed in our engine bays.   

And does anyone know about the difference between the 4' and 6' hose sets?  Is the upcharge there worth it?

I do like the idea of the chromed accumulator ($70)....LOL.....I am a sucka for chrome.  But seems like that would look out of place with a base prep'd unit with the mopar reservoir....

[brads70]

That's the same I'm finding. From what I calculated I'd only save around $100 bucks. Are you sold on tallon or hydratech? I'm between the 2

I'm sold on the Wilwood M/C because the newer modern( plastic tank/caps) one I have now leaks slightly and that drives me nuts. The Wilwood one looks like it seals better. From what I've read you will need a bigger bore M/C and there are a few sizes to choose from with Wilwood. ( Gm uses a 1 1/4" bore on the hydraboost I have now)  Tallon offers it with the kit so its one stop shopping/shipping for me and I am working on brackets to mount a Jones P/S pump ( http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/ps.html#3106 )  and with Tallon I know I can get the fittings I need to adapt to this pump. ( AN fittings)  I'm planning on making my own K-Frame that uses a rack ( 8 piston Brembo's, among other things...) so I've already got the pump and pulley sized for what I'm wanting to do ( after talking with people at Jones)

[shadango]

nice looking job someone did on a C-body with salvage yard parts ... low cost..
http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/hydroboost-conversion-on-a-65-fury-3.14443/

Looks like about $450 all in?

Man, that unit sticks WAAAAAY out into the bay, doesnt it?

[shadango]

I'm sold on the Wilwood M/C because the newer modern( plastic tank/caps) one I have now leaks slightly and that drives me nuts. The Wilwood one looks like it seals better. From what I've read you will need a bigger bore M/C and there are a few sizes to choose from with Wilwood. ( Gm uses a 1 1/4" bore on the hydraboost I have now)  Tallon offers it with the kit so its one stop shopping/shipping for me and I am working on brackets to mount a Jones P/S pump ( http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/ps.html#3106 )  and with Tallon I know I can get the fittings I need to adapt to this pump. ( AN fittings)  I'm planning on making my own K-Frame that uses a rack ( 8 piston Brembo's, among other things...) so I've already got the pump and pulley sized for what I'm wanting to do ( after talking with people at Jones)

Yeah, my MC seeps a little too from the caps now and then.   When I first installed the Dr Diff MC, it leaked bad from the caps.  He explained that the repro caps were the issue.  He quickly sent me a couple of like-new used OE caps and that is good for 99%.   I noticed a slight dribble when I looked yesterday after some hard cornering etc.

Seems like the MC i have has got to be the same as what the Hydratech kit offers...but have emailed Dr Diff to confirm.  The Hydratech kit offers a MC8142 and shows it for 83-93, which I swear is what mine already is.

I really dont want to have to deal with making new lines to fit the Wilwood though it looks prettier....would prefer to just bolt in with what I have. Though I may have to change the stock drum brake distribution block and the associated lines out anyways -- not sure about that.....it works FINE with my disks on all four corners and the aluminum MC right now....but with way more brake power, maybe it would be an issue....?

[dfrazz]

Looks like about $450 all in?

Man, that unit sticks WAAAAAY out into the bay, doesnt it?

I bought the Tallon kit and mocked it up in my '71 Challenger.  The MC unit is basically even with the shock mount, so yes it does stick way out in the engine bay.  I sold the car before installing the kit though.

[YellowThumper]

Bit of a dark picture but you can see how far it sticks out from firewall.  But, the back end is not the large diameter like the factory booster.


Mike