Author Topic: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers  (Read 3542 times)

Offline usraptr

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Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« on: March 20, 2016 - 12:53:01 PM »
Okay, first of all I'm sorry for digging up an old subject.  However, I did a search and couldn't find a definitive answer. Some posts say they will work while others say they wont'.  Most posts are in regards to PS, if that makes a deference.  "Fern" had an old post in Feb of 2015 in which he said he was going to run 2" TTI headers with fast ratio arms in the Spring, but I couldn't find a f/u as to how it went.  Anyway, I'm in the middle of rebuilding my front suspension/steering components.  '70 'Cuda with MANUAL steering and 440 engine.  I recently bought the 16.1 ratio manual steering box that Year One sells .  I'm considering buying the  Proforged Fast Ratio Pitman and Idler Arm Kits (116-10026) that Summit sells.  Before I pay almost $200 for this set up, I'd like to know if they will work with 2" TTI, Dougs or any other brand headers for that matter??  It seems, from old posts, that some say they won't work with the 1 7/8" headers but may work with the 2" because they are routed differently.  Any feedback from those who have tried these combinations with manual steering, or knows somebody who has, would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016 - 01:08:54 PM by usraptr »
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.




Offline Fern

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2016 - 03:28:33 PM »
I did a lot of research on this subject and never got a straight answer. The only thing I found is that 2" TTI headers might work, but TTI says it wont. I never got an answer,  so not sure if anyone ever tried this set up.
I ended up keeping the original manifolds.
Good luck.

Offline usraptr

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2016 - 04:20:19 PM »
Thanks Fern.  It's much appreciated :2thumbs:  Anybody else have any experience with headers and fast ratio arms?   :feedback:
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2016 - 04:27:03 PM »

Brad and I both went with Hedman headers because with FF arms the TTI's won't work.

But then someone will come along and say it will work, and I keep telling them go ahead and tell me how it goes.

They never reply.

 :bricks1:
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline usraptr

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2016 - 09:35:47 PM »
How do the Headman headers fit?  I've heard some headers require modification to get them to fit properly. 
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2016 - 11:29:33 PM »

None at all for the Ff arms but sometimes u need to slightly dimple for your steeringbox clearance
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline usraptr

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016 - 09:56:41 AM »
Thank you  :2thumbs: :ylsuper:
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline WildJones

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016 - 11:12:15 PM »
Brad and I both went with Hedman headers because with FF arms the TTI's won't work.

But then someone will come along and say it will work, and I keep telling them go ahead and tell me how it goes.

They never reply.

 :bricks1:
I haveTTI  2" headers. Soon I will have the motor in the car. If someone has quick ratio arms that they want to send me I will test fit them. I went with a Borgeson Steering Box so I don't need fast ratio arms so I'm not going to buy a set just to put the discussion to rest.
Mike
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1970 Cuda

Offline HP2

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016 - 10:47:53 AM »
...and the assembly tolerances on these cars are such that two identical set ups can run into differing fitment problems.

Offline Fern

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016 - 12:43:39 PM »
Quote from: WildJones link=topic=113134.msg1107535#msg1107535 date=1458e616335
I haveTTI  2" headers. Soon I will have the motor in the car. If someone has quick ratio arms that they want to send me I will test fit them. I went with a Borgeson Steering Box so I don't need fast ratio arms so I'm not going to buy a set just to put the discussion to rest.

When the headers are installed, if you measure the distance from the stock arm that will give a good idea if the ff arms will work.

Offline WildJones

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016 - 02:16:26 PM »
When the headers are installed, if you measure the distance from the stock arm that will give a good idea if the ff arms will work.

Great idea. FF fast ratio are what,  3/4 inch longer?

I spoke with the guy who designed the 2" headers and he said that they would work with an E Body. I'd love to know and put this to rest. HP2 however made a good point about variance between our cars. Should be interesting.
Mike
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1970 Cuda

Offline WildJones

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2016 - 06:35:33 PM »
Here you guys go. I can get more from other angles if there is a better angle than from the driver side. I did not check from the passenger side.



Mike
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1970 Cuda

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2016 - 02:50:30 PM »

Mike

I more than anyone want this to work but take a look at this pic, I don't think it will.

I could take some measurements and compare eh?

B
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline WildJones

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016 - 12:48:34 AM »
Mike

I more than anyone want this to work but take a look at this pic, I don't think it will.

I could take some measurements and compare eh?

B
Bryan,

No doubt -  it would just be great to have more options for headers that are compatible with fast ratio arms.

I have been looking at your picture for the past week or so, but without having the the car in front of me it's hard to say. That angle is throwing me off.

I talked with Dick at Firm Feel last week while I was placing an order for new shock plates and u bolts and casually mentioned this topic. He said that the fast ratio arms are ~ <= 1.5" longer than the standard arms. Looking at the pictures on the driver side, it looks like there's at least 1.75" (if not closer to 2" -  more if you don't mind denting the tubes) of clearance before maybe having issues with the height of the arms and the headers. Dick said he hasn't heard one way or the other if the TTI's would work,  but mentioned that his site had some fitment notes posted on it on the FR arm product page (again,  doesn't help with the setup we are discussing).

Still just speculation at this point :)
Mike
95682
1970 Cuda

Offline Mopar Mitch

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Re: Fast ratio pitman and idler arms and headers
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016 - 02:54:25 PM »
In case you aren't aware, the longer idler arm is simply a ~'70 C-body idler arm... realistically, there is no such thing as a "fast ratio idler arm"... its only called that so to match up with the longer "Fast Ratio Pitman arm".... the factory overlooked the required longer length idler arm during its introduction... and by the time they realized it, the production offerings were being ended (mid-70-models T/A-AAR, and early 71 E-body cars with the 340 engine), so, they didn't bother to correct the issue (as well as to get the cars re-aligned).... I was told that by a Chrysler engineer back in the late '70s who knew all about the issue.... nor was there ever any factory bulletin issued.. and that should've been done, but.. was never created.
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