Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??

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Offline crash340

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Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« on: April 06, 2016 - 07:05:26 AM »
Guys, Im getting ready to put together a Dana 60, I have my original E Body 8.75 housing out of the car as I have put a B Body 8.75 in the car, I thought I'd measure the pinion to perch angle on the E Body housing to get a baseline for the D60 build. With my digital angle gauge I have it at 8 degree's per the pic below. Now, I fittec my X pipe exhaust system into the car when I had the original E Body diff in it with minimal clearance to the X pipe, when I fitted the B Body housing I had to shim the perch's 3 deg to raise the nose of the pinion a little or the driveshaft ballance weight would rub th eX pipe on deceleration. I figured it was also because I read somewhere that B Body housings had estra pinion down angle for the Big Block's etc., So, is the 8 Deg I have indicated below correct for the E Body??
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia




Offline 70chall440

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016 - 04:04:29 PM »
if your stock 8.75 has 8* angle, then I would think it would be correct. I could take a look at my B body Dana and see what it is.
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Offline crash340

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016 - 04:09:21 PM »
Mike,
If you wouldnt mind that would be great, I was going to shoot you an email re that. I could pull the B Body housing to check it but to be honest I cant stand the thought of having my car off the road for any longer than minimum, so Im trying to set the D60 up to be just a drop in unit, change it out in a day!!!! did you say your D60 was out of the roadrunner and easy to access?
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016 - 05:11:25 PM »
Yea, no worries. The D60 is on stands next to the roadrunner so it is easy to get to. Tell me exactly what you want and how you recommend I obtain it so that you are getting something that is relevant to what you are seeing. While this would seem like an easy thing to do, I want to make sure I am measuring exactly what you want.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
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Offline crash340

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016 - 06:34:47 PM »
If you have an angle gauge it's easy, if you use an engineers square hold it on the back of the diff where the cover bolts to, if the cover is on it you might be able to get on the edge of the machined surface that the cover bolts to, take a reading, before that though, zero out the gauge on the bottom side of the spring perch that contacts the spring
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016 - 06:45:32 PM »
Ok, so here is what I will do

1. I will level out the spring perches and then put the angle gauge onto the housing (I can also use a Iphone... )
2. I will level out the housing and put the gauge/phone on the spring perch

I will give you both (assuming they are different).

Standby..
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
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Offline 70chall440

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016 - 06:59:59 PM »
So what I got was -5* both ways. It is actually probably more like -4.5* or so but that is as accurate as I can get.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
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Offline Katfish

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016 - 07:11:19 PM »
This is what Dr Diff told me when I did my Dana:

Pinion is 8 degrees nose up relative to the spring perches.  This is not pinion
angle.  Pinion angle is 2 degrees nose down when the rear is bolted in the car. This is because the springs do not bolt in level.

Offline moper

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016 - 07:51:56 PM »
This is what Dr Diff told me when I did my Dana:

Pinion is 8 degrees nose up relative to the spring perches.  This is not pinion
angle.  Pinion angle is 2 degrees nose down when the rear is bolted in the car. This is because the springs do not bolt in level.

This is correct - and you do NOT change the perch or pinion angle to clear exhaust. You move the exhaust. Exhaust won;t make a vibration or wear/brake parts. The wrong pinion angle certainly will.

Offline crash340

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016 - 10:24:19 PM »
This is correct - and you do NOT change the perch or pinion angle to clear exhaust. You move the exhaust. Exhaust won;t make a vibration or wear/brake parts. The wrong pinion angle certainly will.
Oh don't for one min read me wrong there, remember a B Body has an extra 3* pinion angle down,I put the shims in there to match the E body pinion angle, I will be changing exhaust very soon to solve that issue
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline crash340

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016 - 10:28:33 PM »
So what I got was -5* both ways. It is actually probably more like -4.5* or so but that is as accurate as I can get.
Thanks Mike, that's what I would think you would have gotten, my E Body is 8*, it's typical for a B Body HP housing to have an extra 3*, pinion down to that makes your 4.5-5* spot on,,,,, for an I phone user
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016 - 12:08:09 AM »
No worries Greg. I actually used both a Iphone and a angle finder so I could set one and check the other.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline crash340

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016 - 06:19:02 PM »
So, experts, the following applies

**B-body pinion measures 4 degrees up when perches are level.

**E-body pinion measures 7 degrees up when perches are level.

Im building a D60 as you know for my Cuda, it'll have around 600Hp flywheel with 727, std rear leaf springs, I have now approx 2.6* pinion down to driveshaft angle, question is, do I set the spring perches to suit a B body or an E body???, if I set them up to suit a B body I will have approx 5.6* pinion down to driveshaft, I intend to raise the back of the gearbox a little which will probably increase the pinion angle a degree further.
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline crash340

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2016 - 05:27:25 AM »
Thanks guys, Ok, I’ve just spent a couple of hours measuring and measuring and measuring to verify what I’m getting. Right now as it sits, its a standard 1973, Cuda, 340/727, 8.75. factory springs with poly bushes, I have 26.5" high tires on it and the rear fender lips are 25.25" off the ground so I wouldn’t say its lowered as such or even sagged all that much over the years, not significant enough to give me the angles im getting.
anyway. I started at the engine and zero'd my digital angle finder (used an engineers square on the harmonic balancer, then also checked it on the top of the trans lug they have machined surfaces parallel to the centreline, then also on the bottom of the rear trans mount, all gave me zero so good to go) I then attached it to the driveshaft, the driveshaft is at 2.6* up from the eng/trans centreline. I then moved to the rear, zero'd on the driveshaft and checked the pinion angle, it is at 2.5* nose down to the tailshaft, like I have in the image above.
I loosened the two bolts holding the trans mount to the trans and jacked it up approx 3/8" and only took .7* out of the eng/trans to driveshaft angle so its looking like I will need to jack the rear of the trans up prob 3/4" at least to get that line anywhere close to zero!!!! this will also increase my pinion angle to, I'm guessing something like 4*??

So I have two dilemma’s, the first is the existing driveline angle particularly the eng/trans angle and how to resolve it,
The second is, setting the perches up on the Dana, yes I can put it in place without them welded , set the angle and tack them but that is problematic for other reasons right now. As it stands, with the angles I have I’m pretty much going to set it up per a normal E Body (7 degrees up when perches are level.) as I feel the B Body pinion down an extra 3 deg might be too much.
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Can this spring perch to pinion angle be right??
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016 - 01:09:39 PM »
Greg - if it were me, I would mimic the angles you have with the 8.75, or if you think for some performance reason you need a degree more or less, do that. I don't think this is rocket science (although it sure seems that way). I agonized over the same thing when I did my 52, eventually jacked up the rear under the leafs to ensure it was under load and at ride height, then set the angle at 3* down and welded the perches; never looked back (pun intended...  :bigsmile:)
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)