Electric fan question

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    Author Topic: Electric fan question  (Read 7979 times)

    Offline Archialfa

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    Electric fan question
    « on: April 26, 2016 - 03:08:07 PM »
    I'll be doing a custom-made aluminum radiator with electric fan(s) and I need advice.

    What radiator size should I go for? Stock or something bigger? Over here it gets hot in the summer (+36 C / 97 F) and if I get stuck in traffic, I want everything to be running smoothly.

    Would it be better to go with single or dual fans?

    What diameter should be the fan(s) for either of the options?

    At what temperature does the fan(s) usually kick in?

    Any other suggestions or something I should look out for?

    Engine is a 440 Magnum, 1970 Challenger.
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    1970 Challenger 440 Magnum

    Build thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=113902


    Offline YellowThumper

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016 - 03:53:46 PM »
    My recommendation is since you are already doing a custom rad have the same place provide you with it.
    As for single or dual either one should suffice. I believe most setups are single or dual based on packaging constraints. If going with a large single, the center portion with the motor is what sticks out the furthest from radiator. That thick area ends up being central and the same location of the nose of your water pump. Which also sticks out the furthest. Where as with the dual the fans tend to be smaller and slightly lower profile. But their thick centers are left and right of the protruding water pump.
    In my small block Challenger for and aft spacing is no issue for clearance.
    I have an early Mustang and duals were the only option.
    There are some arguments of electrical load requirements between the two also.

    If $$$ are a major concern I have read somewhere that a Lincoln mk7 has a large single that can be adapted to fit fairly easily to the factory 26" rad.

    Above all I recommend you also invest in a variable pulse width controller. Fan(s) will modulate rpm based on temperature.
    Also...
    If you currently still have your factory ammeter and firewall  bulkhead connection. You should look into bypassing them. They are a weak point in the cars systems and can cause fires when adding accessories that start to tap out the existing electrical.
    Madelectrical.com has awsome writeups on this and how to correct it.

    Good luck
    Mike.
    « Last Edit: April 26, 2016 - 03:55:22 PM by YellowThumper »
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    Offline cudabob496

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #2 on: April 26, 2016 - 04:12:40 PM »
    on my car, put the largest alum 2 row rad that would fit.
    Have factory 26 in shroud on engine side, with a $90 16 inch
    electric fan from Summit.  Just have a switch for fan on dash,
    and flip it on when things get hot, but rarely run the fan, as the
    engine bay is well vented, and air passes through rad easily.
    Also have front spoiler/splitter coming off lower front valance, which
    forces more air into radiator.
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    72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

    1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

    2011 Kawasaki Z1000

    Offline brads70

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #3 on: April 26, 2016 - 05:31:02 PM »
    Be advised your stock alternator likely won't keep up. I tried  3 different rads and 2 different electric fans  as well as engine fans to cool mine down.
    I ended up with a pusher and a puller 17" fans from here. These move the most air of what I tried or looked at. When shopping for a electric fan the one that draws the most will move the most air.
    http://rainbowproductsonline.com/shroud-fan-assembly/extreme-coolers.php

    I also used an alternator from here to power it all up. Do the ammeter bypass as suggested and wire electrical add on's with relays.
     http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item_557/Chrysler-Mount-Mega-Amp-Alternator.htm
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    Brad
    1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
    Barrie,Ontario,Canada
    Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

    My restoration thread 
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
     My handling upgrade post
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

    Offline cudabob496

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016 - 06:23:43 PM »
    think you can get a decent fan from Summit that does not pull over 10 amps.  Mine pulls 9.

    I would not get one of those shrouds that block off the entire rad air flow, except for where the fan is.
    If I had that, my fan would be on all the time.
    « Last Edit: April 26, 2016 - 06:25:15 PM by cudabob496 »
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    72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

    1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

    2011 Kawasaki Z1000

    Offline Archialfa

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016 - 04:06:46 AM »
    Thanks guys!!

    My problem is that I live in Europe and getting stuff here from US suppliers means shipping costs + customs tax (10%) + VAT (another 25% on top of everything). That's why I'm going for the custom made solution.

    My mechanic suggested to go with 2 fans - one will be turned on automatically and for the other there would be a switch in the cabin (as cudabob496 suggested) for extreme cases (getting stuck in traffic during hot weather).

    Quote from: YellowThumper on April 26, 2016 - 03:53:46 PM
    Above all I recommend you also invest in a variable pulse width controller. Fan(s) will modulate rpm based on temperature.
    What's a variable pulse width controller? My English is not that good in technical terms and I'm not a mechanic so that makes things even harder.  :clueless:

    Quote from: YellowThumper on April 26, 2016 - 03:53:46 PM
    If you currently still have your factory ammeter and firewall  bulkhead connection. You should look into bypassing them. They are a weak point in the cars systems and can cause fires when adding accessories that start to tap out the existing electrical.
    Madelectrical.com has awsome writeups on this and how to correct it.

    Thanks, it never crossed my mind that the standard installation might not be adequate for the new load. Newbie all the way.
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    1970 Challenger 440 Magnum

    Build thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=113902

    Offline YellowThumper

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016 - 11:06:32 AM »
    The fan controller I suggested will increase and decrease fan speed (rpm) as needed based on engine temperature. Not just as an on and off switch. Most often the fan(s) will not need to run at full speed. This in turn also lessens some of the electrical load requirement.
    Also, your mechanics suggestion is a good one because with the dual fans each one will be smaller. If running only one your electrical load will also be lower until the 2nd one is flipped on.
    The ammeter issue I noted was a weak spot from the day these cars left the showroom.

    Good luck and enjoy it...
    Mike
    « Last Edit: April 27, 2016 - 11:10:45 AM by YellowThumper »
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    Offline cudabob496

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016 - 01:13:06 PM »
    http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml


    at bottom of page, click on Part 2 as well
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    72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

    1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

    2011 Kawasaki Z1000

    Offline brasil

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016 - 10:31:13 AM »
    a nice 26 " Radiator....  Fan shroud  7 blade HD Fan Blade   a good HD fanclutch.. that ´s all you need

    Never  used a E fan.... in my cars . When our cars  left the factory....the system worked even in Arizona...Death Valley....  ...
    I have a Jeep in Brasil...only the HD Fan...with HD clutch...  Never had a problem...  and there the temp. goes up to 40 deg...in the shadow.. ( if you can find some....
    My  DAILY  ( 300c Hemi )...has this awfull E fan Stuff....  the engine s runnin real hot...  101 Deg C in the city.....    the fans start to cool down the coolant @ around 103 deg.....    even with a 190 ° F / 88 deg C   thermostat....  not so nice...    a real SOLID Fan...or a fan with fan clutch would be way much better !!

    Greetings Juergen

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    Offline YellowThumper

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016 - 11:21:33 AM »
    It all boils down to air flow.
    Mechanical fans are great at lower speeds but electrical fans are superior if you are in traffic with extended periods of being stationary. Just ask the masses of car show attendees waiting in the long lines to get in...

    All fans become non functional at upper driving speeds. Ram air trumps them.
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    Removing the warning labels one at a time.
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    Offline Archialfa

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #10 on: April 29, 2016 - 12:25:19 PM »
    Guys, what about the temperature at which fan should kick in? 80 deg C? 90? 100?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    1970 Challenger 440 Magnum

    Build thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=113902

    Offline brasil

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #11 on: April 29, 2016 - 12:32:52 PM »
    90 Deg. Celcius... or just a tat above...

    Greetings Juergen
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    Offline rockymopar

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #12 on: April 30, 2016 - 08:09:15 PM »
    best fan for the money, pulls 17 amps great if your electrical system is up to the task


     http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1995/ford/thunderbird/cooling_system/radiator_fan_assembly.html
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    Offline Archialfa

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #13 on: May 01, 2016 - 02:09:48 PM »
    Well, we took a long hard look yesterday at all the wiring and it one of the previous owners already bypassed the ammeter.

    After taking it all apart we'll be able to figure out what needs to be changes because some of the wires are in a really bad shape. The alternator is also not stock, I hope to find some kind of serial number or anything that might give me a clue its power. Hopefully, I won't need to buy a new one.
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    1970 Challenger 440 Magnum

    Build thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=113902

    Offline crash340

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    Re: Electric fan question
    « Reply #14 on: May 01, 2016 - 04:38:53 PM »
    Is there are way to have the alternator tested for output???
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    Greg

    73 Cuda
    Brisbane, Australia
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