Need advice on our 440

Author Topic: Need advice on our 440  (Read 4422 times)

Offline Wadmin1021

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Need advice on our 440
« on: June 21, 2016 - 10:18:27 PM »
We are currently rebuilding our 1971 Barracuda and have decided to put a 440 four-barrel engine into it.  We have purchased the block and heads.  They have been completely disassembled, cleaned, hot-tanked, magna-fluxed (sp?), bored out to 30-over and is now ready to be reassembled.  My husband and I had someone lined up to rebuild the engine but we can't get a hold of him (after trying for several weeks) so we are going to have to do this ourselves.  We need to buy a few remaining parts before starting the rebuild.  We have a lot of engine knowledge but not rebuilding one from scratch like this.  Before we buy all these parts, can someone please verify that these parts are correct for our motor/car?  Also, a few of the parts have questions with them that we need answered.  I know that this is asking a lot but if we didn't desperately need the help, we wouldn't ask.  Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to try and help!

Part                   Vendor          Amt.               Notes
Cam                  Summit      $429.97        P/N CCA-K21-224-4
CAM DESCRIPTION - Comp Xtreme Energy; Lift .488/.491; .050 Dur 230/236; Lower stall convert 2200+; 1800-6000 RPM; 110 deg overlap
Lifters               Summit                          P/N CCA-K21-224-4   w/ Cam, Lifters, Valve Springs, Retainers, Locks, Valve Stem Seals, Timing Chain/Gears, Assem Lube
Valve Springs   Summit                          P/N CCA-K21-224-4   w/ Cam, Lifters, Valve Springs, Retainers, Locks, Valve Stem Seals, Timing Chain/Gears, Assem Lube
Gasket Set     Summit      $56.00        P/N FEL-KS2110   
Intake Gasket   Summit        $25.00        P/N SLP-260-4035   
Timing Chain   Summit                          P/N CCA-K21-224-4   w/ Cam, Lifters, Valve Springs, Retainers, Locks, Valve Stem Seals, Timing Chain/Gears, Assem Lube
Oil Pump           Summit      $86.00        P/N MEL-M63HV   
Oil Pickup           Summit      $27.00        P/N DCC-4529565   
Carburetor     TBD                           Edel 600-650cfm/elec choke   What size CFM should we be looking for? And with electric choke?
Plug Wires           TBD         
Plug Wire Hold   TBD         
Exhaust Manif   TBD         
Distrib/Elec Mod   Summit     $180.00        P/N SUM-850005-1   
Torque Conv   Summit     $345.00        P/N BMM-10415   2400 RPM Stall
Alternator           Summit      $97.00        P/N SUM-812106   60 amp / Chrome finish - NEED SINGLE GROOVE
Belt            
Radiator           Champion     $310.00        P/N 2375   4-row 22"; lower port on driver's side - IS ALUMINUM OKAY?  2,3, or 4-row?
Hoses            
Battery            NAPA     $120.00        P/N BAT 7527   710 CCA; OEM size
Oil                                         WEIGHT?  SYNTHETIC? BLEND? BRAND? HOW MUCH?
Additive            Summit      $13.00        P/N CCA-159      How many?
Trans Fluid                                 Type F? How much?
Rear End Oil                         80-90? How much?
Antifreeze                                      2-4 gallons   

If I forgot something or you need more info, please don't hesitate to ask.  We already have some of the parts including the starter, intake, water pump etc.  These are the only remaining parts that we need, that we know of right now.  Thanks again for taking the time to not only read this but trying to help!

Thanks - Mindy

P.S.  I can't tell you what a valuable asset this forum has been thus far.  Thanks to all the guys who have been there to help when we had no one else to ask.
https://youtu.be/OEKt5K71CDM

A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT




Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2016 - 10:26:17 PM »
Here is our motor still bagged and ready to reassemble after picking it up from the machine shop. Pictured here are the heads, the crank and block.




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A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline blown motor

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2016 - 10:49:31 PM »
I can't advise you on engine components but I am running a 650 Eddy on my 340. Your carb is too small. It also might be good to know what you have in mind for an exhaust system.
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Offline brasil

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016 - 04:34:13 AM »
...the cam is a little big ( in my opinion.... ) 
The carb must be bigger....  750 cfm
The HV Oil Pump is good...IF you have a bigger oil pan..that holds 2 quarts more oil...
Tranny fluid   ATF F is   FORD  STUFF    this oil has less "slip"..  but I would use DEXRON  3   or even ATF 4 +   
Synthetic engine oil is great... but use this    after the BREAK IN was done...and the engine made some 2-3 miles on top...so the rings can be set in..
Amsoil makes good stuff..... so does BradPenn...   Important is.. the amount of ZINK in the oil ( if you are going with a flat tappet cam )
The Aluminium radiator is fine...2 rows will be o.k.
FANSHROUD !! is Important...be sure that the Radiator has the brackets to use a SHROUD !! NOT ALL AFTERMARKET RADIATORS have them !!!!
Rearend oil...   3 quarts  will be o.k ( with LS Diff you need to add some Friction modifier ! )

Greetings Juergen

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016 - 06:35:06 AM »
...the cam is a little big ( in my opinion.... ) 
The carb must be bigger....  750 cfm
The HV Oil Pump is good...IF you have a bigger oil pan..that holds 2 quarts more oil...
Tranny fluid   ATF F is   FORD  STUFF    this oil has less "slip"..  but I would use DEXRON  3   or even ATF 4 +   
Synthetic engine oil is great... but use this    after the BREAK IN was done...and the engine made some 2-3 miles on top...so the rings can be set in..
Amsoil makes good stuff..... so does BradPenn...   Important is.. the amount of ZINK in the oil ( if you are going with a flat tappet cam )
The Aluminium radiator is fine...2 rows will be o.k.
FANSHROUD !! is Important...be sure that the Radiator has the brackets to use a SHROUD !! NOT ALL AFTERMARKET RADIATORS have them !!!!
Rearend oil...   3 quarts  will be o.k ( with LS Diff you need to add some Friction modifier ! )

My husbands wants his car to be 80% street, 20% strip.  We want a cam that will support the amount of ass he wants it to have.  Thanks for info on the carb, we will get a bigger one.  Regarding oil, we should use standard oil during the break-in process and then switch to Synthetic?  What weight?  I have read so much and everyone has their own opinion on this.  What do you say?  Thanks for all the tips you gave! 

Greetings Juergen
https://youtu.be/OEKt5K71CDM

A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline cudabob496

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016 - 07:47:46 AM »
I've heard 1500 miles on regular oil, then you can use synthetic
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

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Offline dfrazz

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2016 - 10:17:14 AM »
Carburetor     TBD                           Edel 600-650cfm/elec choke   What size CFM should we be looking for? And with electric choke?
Plug Wires           TBD               
Distrib/Elec Mod   Summit     $180.00        P/N SUM-850005-1   

Carb - Proform 750 cfm, and get the Lokar linkage (easier to hook up than stock and nice clean look)
Dist and coil - Firecore (either RTR so no need for MSD or ballast or stock with MSD, your choice)
Plug Wires - Firecore 8.5 mm

Contact Ron Wilson for Firecore set up (ron.wilson1@live.ca).  Good guy to talk to about your whole 440 set up too, knows his stuff!

Offline brasil

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016 - 04:10:22 PM »
for the break in ..good old DINO OIL   with a good SHOT of ZDDP   15w40    would be fine...

After the break in..Change the oil...put the same Dino OIL in..15w40  also with ZDDP..   go for 1500-2000 mls with this oil....than change over to Synthetic.
10 w40  or even 5W40   depends ...  Importent is the amount of ZINK! to protect the camshaft


Greetings Juergen

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016 - 04:34:45 PM »
Exhaust will be manifolds (not sure if stock manifolds or HP manifolds) with dual exhaust out the back of the car.  I don’t know if the HP manifolds will clear my Mopar Performance valve covers.  Is anybody running HP manifolds with Mopar Performance valve covers and if they had any issues that will help with our manifold decision.
 
We have a chrome, stock aftermarket oil pan.  It is not larger than factory, it is the same size.

"Tranny fluid   ATF F is   FORD  STUFF    this oil has less "slip"..  but I would use DEXRON  3   or even ATF 4 +" -  Everything that I have read said to use Type F (which is Ford) in the torqueflight’s.   


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A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016 - 11:25:43 PM »
I will go through this list shortly when I have a bt more time
But you can do far better on a lot of these items such as Carb & Cam & timing chain to start with

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Offline 734406pk

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016 - 11:40:21 PM »
I will go through this list shortly when I have a bt more time
But you can do far better on a lot of these items such as Carb & Cam & timing chain to start with

 :iagree:  Do you have pistons and connecting rods yet? Has the block been zero decked? I appears that you have open chamber heads there, are the last 3 digits in the casting numbers 906 or 352 etc? Do you have the intake and exhaust valves already? There are specific break-in oils available for your purpose. "Driven" brand is one for example, which I have used. Not a concern, we have to get build right first. It's assumed that you want to run the stock (style) stamped steel rocker arms for simplicity?
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2016 - 02:53:05 PM »
:iagree:  Do you have pistons and connecting rods yet? Has the block been zero decked? I appears that you have open chamber heads there, are the last 3 digits in the casting numbers 906 or 352 etc? Do you have the intake and exhaust valves already? There are specific break-in oils available for your purpose. "Driven" brand is one for example, which I have used. Not a concern, we have to get build right first. It's assumed that you want to run the stock (style) stamped steel rocker arms for simplicity?

Yes we have brand new pistons and connecting rods cleaned machined and prepped for the motor by a machine shop. Yes all machining has been done to block and major components. The motor is a 1975 440 RB. Intake and exhaust valves purchased through machine shop. I don't know what type of rocker arms but I'm thinking about Comps Pro Magnum adj roller rocker arms.


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A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT

Offline 734406pk

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2016 - 06:41:15 PM »
Yes we have brand new pistons and connecting rods cleaned machined and prepped for the motor by a machine shop. Yes all machining has been done to block and major components. The motor is a 1975 440 RB. Intake and exhaust valves purchased through machine shop. I don't know what type of rocker arms but I'm thinking about Comps Pro Magnum adj roller rocker arms.


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Ok sounds good. All clearances have been checked? Piston to cylinder wall, ring gaps, bearing clearances etc? Also has the compression ratio been calculated with these new pistons and the iron cylinder heads?
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2016 - 12:04:02 AM »
Duh
I did not get back to this sorry

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Wadmin1021

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Re: Need advice on our 440
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2016 - 11:52:30 AM »
That's okay, we are still waiting on someone to help us... We don't want to order the wrong parts. More specifically can I ask the following questions hoping that this will be easier for someone to answer. Planning on ordering the following parts for our car:

Cam: Summit P/N CCA-K21-224-4
Rockers: Summit P/N CCA-1621-16
Magnum pushrods but have to measure length first.
Considering Proform 750cfm carb instead of Edelbrock.

Please tell me thoughts on this at least please!



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A couple that plays together, stays together!

'71 Plymouth 'Cuda named Claudia w/ 440 4-barrel and TF AT