70 Challenger RT - EFI 6 Pack Conversion

[70chall440]

Roll with it and organize it's a good thing.
We used to say at work "you gotta take time to make time" I don't know about you, how frustrated I get when working on something and I can't find a tool or/and there's so much stuff in the way you can't get to anything or are tripping over everything. Since I'm keeping things clean and organized frustration has gone down and overall I think I'm doing better and more efficient just more enjoyable.

I am constantly thinking I should be working on something else rather than organizing. Today I think I reached a point that is very close to the end, I labeled my other tool boxes but only after rooting through them to discover a pile of crap in the wrong place or worse yet just junk. Ended up with more empty drawers which allowed me to (wait for it....) reorganize some more.. LOL

All that said, I absolutely agree and love knowing exactly where everything is. I have taken to putting as much on the walls or in view as possible; that along with the labels tells me where everything is (a good thing). Hell, I found tools I forgot I had...

[70chall440]

Regarding your transmission problem get a copy of Torqueflite A727 Transmission Handbook. It walks you through all aspects of repairing and rebuilding the 727. I used it when I rebuilt mine. Never done an auto before and it works great. Better yet if you are not busy Saturday I am having a barbecue, swing by and you can borrow my copy have a burger and beer by the lake. I am just down the road in Spanaway. PM me if you are interested and I will send you the address and directions.

Greatly appreciate the offers!

I already have the book and am using it. I will check with my social secretary reference Sunday  If it doesn't work out, you are always welcome out here as well.

I dropped the pan today and dropped the VB (couldn't get the park rod out for some reason so I just removed the E clip).

I will post these pics in the transmission section as well to get wider dissemination, however I discovered a few things; first is that I am missing 1 ball bearing (pic with the red circle). This might have been done during the rebuild as a performance mod (?)... Second, I discovered why it wont shift into 3rd, the 2-3 servo is completely locked up... This shows what sitting around for years does... Have to figure out how to get it unstuck before I can reassemble and install it.

[70chall440]

I ended up ordering a transgo TFSC kit as it looks like it "might" have the spring I am after but we will see. I tried figuring out what the kit contained but didn't have much luck and at $34 I figured it was worth it to find out. I looked all over the internet but could not locate that one spring, if this kit doesn't have it, I will rob one out of another trans I have.

I received my A518 pan kit, genuine Mopar, nice quality and very complete.

[70chall440]

Finally got the VB back together, I had to poach a new 2-3 shift valve spring from a spare trans I have. I installed the transgo TFSC kit, although it appears that the guy who built the trans did about 75% of the same thing. I got the VB reinstalled into the trans and the new deep pan on. I need to fill it and then test it to see if it works (fingers crossed).

Here are some pics of the A518 pan (like $35), I really like it, not as "cool" or structurally supportive as a cast aluminum pan, but for a stock or near stock motor and trans, it is fine.

[70chall440]

Good news, got the trans put back together and took it for a drive; it shifts!!! 

Still need to tune it but the EFI starts, idles and runs well. Also need to do a front end alignment I think.

[70chall440]

So today was a bit monumental for this car, for the first time since I owned this car (built it in 2004) I was able to drive it to a gas station and fill it up..  I know this doesn't seem like a big deal, but for me and this car it was a milestone.

The problem I did have was and is the front end alignment. I have tried to set this up I cannot count how many times. I have read many documents on how to do it and what to do, have purchased a number of tools and still I cant get it right. It seems the problem is with the camber; either it is way out or way in. I believe the problem I am having is this;

in order to make any adjustments, you have to loosen the UCA bolts, in order to do that you have to raise the vehicle which I believe unloads the suspension. Then once the bolts are loosened slightly and after I roll the car back and forth, I check the camber, make an adjustment/s until I like it and thing I have to raise the car to tighten the UCA bolts.

Today, when I drove to the gas station the passenger tires was leaning out at the top; when I checked the camber with a Joe Gibbs caster/camber tool it said it was like 1.25 deg whereas the drivers side was .25 deg. I adjusted it so both were .25 and then did the toe (which was way out). I tightened everything and went out for a drive; well as soon as I got on the road it was pulling hard to the right, but since I needed to drive it to get the EFI to learn I continued on for about 15 minutes. When I got back I looked at the tires and the passenger side was now leaning the other direction (grossly in at the top). I checked the bolts and they were where I set them (I marked them).

So this tells me that I am getting a false reading when I am setting it up and I cannot figure how to do this effectively. Sorry for the long post but I am getting pretty frustrated. I do not want to take it to the shop because I really want to know how to do it correctly.

[70chall440]

So today I tried to sort out the alignment. Upon advice from a friend and fellow member here, I crawled under the car, loosened the nut on front eccentric bolt and installed the Joe Gibbs gauge (it was showing about 1.5 neg camber). I tried to adjust it and did some but then it decided not to move any more, I loosed the nut some more, tried again. At that point the bolt was spinning in the washers. This is a grade 8 bolt and washer and this is the second set I have stripped out. Perhaps I need to lub the crap out of these or something.... The tire was on the ground just a FYI.

[70chall440]

I was able to get the UCA sorted out using another camber adjustment bolt I had. I set up the alignment (camber and toe) and took it out for a drive; had a pull to the right which wasn't horrible but there nonetheless. I came back and checked it and the pass side was out about .25 tp .5 degree from the drivers side (which is at about .30 or .35 degrees). So I loosened up the bolt and adjusted it again.

Couple of observations here; first is that I was never convinced that all Mopars came with the nut side in the engine compartment and to be 100% honest I am still not absolutely convinced they did, however I believe this was how they were supposed to be. While have the bolt head does look better and theoretically offers easier adjustment (can do it from under the hood verses laying under the car); I am thinking that this perhaps places a lot of strain on the bolt when trying to turn it and move the UCA. I could be wrong as I did clean up and lubricate the replacement (which worked 1000% better) but I thought I'd mention it. Next is that you really need to be focused when doing this but be able to see the whole picture. Point in case, even though I set the toe to 1/16 in, after the drive the pass side was pointed out. Now, I am not sure how this occurred but the short of it is that you need to get the tires pointed in the same direction roughly before starting.

Bottom line here is that the alignment is pretty sorted out now, the steering wheel is off center (top is about at the 1 O'clock position) so I will have to deal with that at some point. The starts amazing, better than ever. It runs good, however it does have a surge at idle that I don't know the cause of. I probably need to do some more tuning but it is very close.

Stay tuned (pun intended).

[73440]

Great to hear about getting the car out to the gas station !
I've been wanting to learn the alignment work also as my tires look like leaning weird.

[70chall440]

That's how I approached it, I wanted to know how to do it and be able to do it myself. I think I have a decent working understanding of it now. What I "believe" to be the path is this;

1. make sure the tires are pointed generally in the same direction. I think this is the part of the directions where they say "with the wheels pointed directly forward" or "with the wheel straight". If one seems out of whack (or both), rough adjust the tie rods to get them relatively straight.

2. adjust the rear camber bolts in board (lots on the internet about this)

3. adjust the front camber bolts out board

4. check the camber, adjust as needed

5. check and adjust the toe

Now, all that is easy to say (type) however there are some nuances you need to be aware of.

1. you need some tools; something to measure camber and something to measure the toe. There are lots of homemade devices, but I have to say this is a place where I chose to spend some money. I used a Joes Racing camber/caster gauge and a set of longacre toe plates. I will say that the plates are a little bit of a challenge to get set, I ended up using arms off of a puller that could go through the handle of the plates and hooked into my wheels which held them securely.

2. you REALLY need to move the car (preferably drive it) after you make the camber adjustments to ensure it is where you think you set it. I personally don't believe the "bounce it a few times" or "push it back and forth about 10' to reset the suspension". In my case, none of these allowed the suspension to settle and give me a true reading.

3. you must tighten those bolts up!! In my case, I found that some grease behind the washers on the bolts REALLY helps. Mine were dry and I about got a hernia trying to adjust them.

So, all this said I would offer this advice;

1. drive the car where you can work on it.
2. without lifting the car, loosen and adjust the camber bolts
3. retighten the camber bolts
4. check the direction of the tires, adjust if needed (rough)
5. drive the car a little, just to set the suspension
6. check the camber, adjust if necessary
7. set the toe
8. drive the car

You can do this yourself, but having someone help you is exceptionally helpful.

I am sure others can chime in with their suggestions/directions but this is what I did.

[73440]

Thanks for the write up!
The Joes racing guage look like the longacre I have been looking at .
Did you use the magnetic adapter ?

[73_Cuda_4_Me]

Hey 70chall440... something really wrong with your UCA bolts

The UCA bolts and offset washers are KEYED together - there should be flats on bolts and similar flats on I.D. of the offset washers, so they only go on one way, and DO NOT TURN freely on bolts... As you turn the adjusting bolts, both washers should push against the sheet metal 'U' that the washers ride in, forcing the bolt and UCA in or out as needed. Washers have to be seated in U-channel, and both should rotate as bolt is turned either direction.

Once set, and nuts tightened to spec, the bolt shouldn't move in or out at all... you shouldn't get any change from that setting!

[73440]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Upper-Control-Arm-Bolt-Kit-Cam-Bolts-Washers-Nuts-64-74-A-B-C-E-648-/132143510328?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-53200-19255-0%252F1%253Ficep_ff3%253D2%2526pub%253D5574933636%2526toolid%253D10001%2526campid%253D5337687316%2526customid%253D%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww%25252Eebay%25252Ecom%25252Fitm%25252FMopar-Upper-Control-Arm-Bolt-Kit-Cam-Bolts-Washers-Nuts-64-74-A-B-C-E-648-%25252F132143510328%2526srcrot%253D711-53200-19255-0%2526rvr_id%253D1247559193090&ul_noapp=true

Must be these

[73_Cuda_4_Me]

YUP!

 

[70chall440]

I do not know how they stripped out, however it occurred when I was trying to adjust the UCA. If was to hazard a guess, I would say it was a combination of factors not the least of which was the tightness of the bushing is the pocket as well as the friction of the washers within their respective pockets.

I put an original back in there and its all good now.

I used to have some Ebay trash on all 4 corners of the the 2 UCA's which had the flat running the entire length of the bolt; they sucked.