My Tuning Adventures

Author Topic: My Tuning Adventures  (Read 10343 times)

Offline CUDA JAS

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My Tuning Adventures
« on: July 14, 2016 - 08:34:21 AM »
I thought I would post about my adventures over the last week or so, in the hopes that it might help some one out as we have seen a lot of tunning / timing type questions lately.

Last week I got it in my head that I wanted to play with the timing on my cuda.

Honestly, it was a slow week at work and I wanted something to do during the evenings, and I love to tinker. :biggrin:

So I tried a few different springs in the dizzy...took out the very light aftermarket spring and tried the heavy stock spring with the long loop along with the lighter factory spring.

I noted that the timing was bouncing at idle so I thought the stronger spring might help. It did.

I have previously "welded up" the inside of the slots in the dizzy to limit total mechanical advance to around 18 degrees.

With that combination, I found power was really down.

I tried a few different combinations over the last week or so and settled on a light aftermarket spring and a medium stock spring (not sure where it came from but it is a little heavier then what was in there). 

ON my test drive tonight the car felt good, best power of the few combinations I tried.  My only concern is that it takes a little while for the timing to come in...its all in around 3000, maybe a little more. 

The initial is set at 20 degrees, idles at 750 rpm in D, timing is nice and steady on the timing light, and pulls 10 degrees vacuum at the manifold.

So after my drive I turned my attention to the carb...trying clean up the AFR at idle, and while the idle mixture screws mad an impact, I found that the ported vacuum was pulling the same 10 degrees as manifold vacuum.  So obviously the primaries are open too much and the carb is not working on just the idle circuit. 

So I worked on that and got the vacuum down to 0 on the ported vacuum port.  Not sure why the idle screw was in so far but it was. I had to open up the secondary a little to close the primaries enough to get the vacuum down to zero.  Played with the mixture screws again and got the AFR to around 13.5 - 14.0 at idle.  Idle is not about 700 in D...but still nice and steady.

I am looking forward to seeing how the car works now that it is idling on the idle circuit. I am hopeful it will provide better idle quality, and be crisper off the line!  I know I will probably have to adjust a few more things on the carb now to get it right...but that's ok, I love this stuff!

I think the key is, remember that the timing and carb are linked, if you change one, you may need to adjust the other...and don't for get to recheck everything. 

Happy tuning!

Jason


74 'cuda 360/727



Gearhead: car nut, automotive enthusiast, one who loves hot rods, muscle cars, hot trucks, burnin' rubber and neck snapping performance. 

Just call me a gearhead!




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016 - 10:14:29 AM »
 :2thumbs:

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline v21jeff

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016 - 10:26:59 AM »
Please pardon my extreme novice status, but why weld the slots. I have seen this before. I know it will limit how much it will advance, but in my mind does not seem like a good thing. I just installed the light springs in my "dizzy". Did not weld slots. It is a slightly warmed engine. What do you think? I did not start yet, have to fix coolant leak first

Offline YellowThumper

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2016 - 10:29:22 AM »
 :2thumbs:  :2thumbs:
Removing the warning labels one at a time.
Nature will take care of the rest.

Offline CUDA JAS

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2016 - 01:50:36 PM »
Please pardon my extreme novice status, but why weld the slots. I have seen this before. I know it will limit how much it will advance, but in my mind does not seem like a good thing. I just installed the light springs in my "dizzy". Did not weld slots. It is a slightly warmed engine. What do you think? I did not start yet, have to fix coolant leak first

Hey man never apologize for novice status...we were all novices once and most of us are still learning.  Best thing about this site is everyone's willingness to help out.

Questions like yours are exactly why I decided to post this.

A performance engine tends to need more initial timing (stock can be less then 10 degrees, I run 20 degrees).  If you leave the slots as is, the timing can run up to 50 degrees once you set the initial timing.  By welding up the slots, you shorten the advance curve, which allows you to run a higher initial number and not have to much total timing.

If you are running a slightly warmed over engine you might be fine as you might no need a lot of initial timing, but you probably wont know until you fire up the engine and see how it runs.  Having too much total advance will not hurt anything, just not make max power.

BTW...that car in you avatar pic looks awesome...have you posted larger pics on the board...if not, can you PLEASE!!!!!

Jason
74 'cuda 360/727



Gearhead: car nut, automotive enthusiast, one who loves hot rods, muscle cars, hot trucks, burnin' rubber and neck snapping performance. 

Just call me a gearhead!

Offline jhaag

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2016 - 03:30:20 PM »
Quote
Having too much total advance will not hurt anything, just not make max power.


would have to disagree with that statement. Too much total timing will induce detonation under load. If you continue to drive a vehicle with too much advance it will overheat, detonate and eventually destroy itself. I think your statement was too general and may give some the wrong impression :2cents:
love 70 Challengers

Offline CUDA JAS

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2016 - 08:23:15 PM »

would have to disagree with that statement. Too much total timing will induce detonation under load. If you continue to drive a vehicle with too much advance it will overheat, detonate and eventually destroy itself. I think your statement was too general and may give some the wrong impression :2cents:

see always learning!!

 :newbie:

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
74 'cuda 360/727



Gearhead: car nut, automotive enthusiast, one who loves hot rods, muscle cars, hot trucks, burnin' rubber and neck snapping performance. 

Just call me a gearhead!

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2016 - 11:32:55 PM »
We all are . life is a long lesson !

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline v21jeff

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016 - 02:23:49 PM »
Yes I will post more pictures. Thanks for the compliment and help. Every min. I get right now is devoted to getting car ready for Mopar Nats and Woodward Cruise. 28 years is a long time to wait!!!!

Offline brasil

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016 - 04:19:15 AM »
OH yeah... timing is a never ending story...

I am tinkering around with my Distributor also...  to find a 100 % curve is a long lasting job...  but I agree..  the light springs will not work well in performance built.   The 16-20 deg . @ idle seems to be a good sart for a good
curve....  up to 35 deg all in  ( depending on the quality of the fuel you use...  ....

The" holy gral"  is the selection of the springs....   ( a distributor machine would be very helpfull ..)  all in at 3000 rpm looks fine   but I think a little earlier would be better....  ?? 

The vacuum canister is another "thing"...  normaly 15- 20 deg on top of the 35 deg would be great...for economiy issues...  but as far as I "learnd"....   most of the  performance built engines don´t tolerate the VC... :(

I know three cars ( mopars of course )  that have issues with the VC  doesn´t matter which curve they use...

Greetings Juergen

Offline CUDA JAS

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016 - 04:53:39 PM »

The" holy gral"  is the selection of the springs....   ( a distributor machine would be very helpfull ..)  all in at 3000 rpm looks fine   but I think a little earlier would be better....  ?? 

The vacuum canister is another "thing"...  normaly 15- 20 deg on top of the 35 deg would be great...for economiy issues...  but as far as I "learnd"....   most of the  performance built engines don´t tolerate the VC... :(

Agreed, a distributor machine would be an awesome tool to have. I think in the end you just have to find what works right for your car by trial and error.

Same on vacuum advance, I have had some bad experiences with it, but I believe it is there for a reason so I keep going back to it every now and again.

My latest attempt seemed to work well.  Added a little timing at cruise which it felt like it needed with the current mechanical set up, but I only had a short drive so I am not convinced yet.  In the past when ever it was hooked up I had a horrible lurching at light throttle or coasting.

Todays changes included dropping the primary jets from 70 down to 68, trying to lean it out overall.  The AFR meter reads in 11 - 12s while cruising.

Also dropped the power valve from 6.5 down to 4.5.  With a little less then 10inches of vacuum at idle, the 6.5 seemed to be high.

When I go WOT the AFR meter reads dead rich, and bogs.  Not to the point of stalling but you can feel that it is down on power.  So I am trying to get that under control.

I hope to drive test tonight!

74 'cuda 360/727



Gearhead: car nut, automotive enthusiast, one who loves hot rods, muscle cars, hot trucks, burnin' rubber and neck snapping performance. 

Just call me a gearhead!

Offline barnett468

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016 - 04:00:44 AM »
Same on vacuum advance, I have had some bad experiences with it, but I believe it is there for a reason so I keep going back to it every now and again.

Vacuum advance has no affect on acceleration . If the timing curve is set to the optimum level for an engine, I usually set the vacuum advance to add only around 6 degrees to reduce the chance of having it over advanced.

I would also post a photo of the front spark plug from each bank.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016 - 04:03:00 AM by barnett468 »

Offline brasil

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016 - 04:13:05 AM »
 about the Power valve...   I have  a AFR Gauge installed ( Innovate MLX )  ...so made some test drives...

With a vacuum gauge hooked up ... so what did I see ?  If I use a 5.5 PV ( also 9-10 inches of Vacuum @ idle in Gear )...  when I accelerate hard... the Vacuum drops...  and when the engine reaches 6.5 inches....  ( so the valve is still closed  - right  ? )  the carb leas out a little....as soon as I reach around 5 inches  the carb mixture is richer..

So my conclusion...   I went back to the OEM 6.5 PV...to let the PV open sooner...  tonight I will make a test drive..
and keep you informed

Greetings Juergen

Offline CUDA JAS

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016 - 01:28:33 PM »
so a 4.5 powervalve will open sooner making it richer

How is that..I thought the PV stayed closed until the vacuum fell below the number listed on the valve??

That being said...I was not happy at all with the 4.5 PV...the delay in the PV opening caused a huge lean spot at tip in pretty much everywhere. At crusie hit the throttle and the AFR spikes lean.  So it think I will go up a bit to a 5.5 PV.

At cruise the smaller jets leaned it out across the range and the AFR meter now reads in the 13s.

So the adventure continues.

Jason
74 'cuda 360/727



Gearhead: car nut, automotive enthusiast, one who loves hot rods, muscle cars, hot trucks, burnin' rubber and neck snapping performance. 

Just call me a gearhead!

Offline barnett468

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Re: My Tuning Adventures
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2016 - 01:55:34 PM »
How is that..I thought the PV stayed closed until the vacuum fell below the number listed on the valve??

That being said...I was not happy at all with the 4.5 PV...the delay in the PV opening caused a huge lean spot at tip in pretty much everywhere. At crusie hit the throttle and the AFR spikes lean.  So it think I will go up a bit to a 5.5 PV.

At cruise the smaller jets leaned it out across the range and the AFR meter now reads in the 13s.

So the adventure continues.

Jason

Yes, the valve is closed until the vacuum reaches the level the valve is set for.

Don't use the gauge as your only source of tuning because if you do it will never run right. Use how the car runs and the spark plug color also.

.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016 - 10:16:00 PM by barnett468 »