Slant 6 oil idiot light ON

[shadango]

Someone suggesed they had seen a case where a small block lost all pressure and it was the soft plug behind the cam that popped out......that would cause a major oil leak I assume at the back of the engine.....there is some oil seepage there but doesn't seem like a major leak.....and I don't know if the slant 6 shares a similar design like that or not?

[AussieMark]

If it was mine I would pull it out and check the crank journals and if ok replace the rod and main bearings, timing chain and front and rear crank seals and clean up the sump and pick up you can do it without having to strip the whole engine.

[734406pk]

My son had suggested that.....I discarded the idea figuring that all that would do is complicate things. ......if it WASN'T turning then yeah it would indicate a busted gear. ....but if it WAS turning all it would indicate is that the gear is ok but the pump is bad...so either way you have to replace the pump before anything else which is where we are now already......   found a good article on slant 6 oil pump wear....it says that if yiu pull the distributer yiu can inspect the cam gear that drives the pump. .....    http://www.slantsix.org/articles/oil-pump-gear/failure-fix-report.htm.       as far down the side of the engine as the dizzy is, not sure how that would be possible.....I was tempted to look but figure removing the dizzy at this stage just in its more room for error....so gonna wait till the pump arrives and just swap it out i guess and pray.

Yeah you are right. The suggestion was for emotional support. Sometimes it's a relief to actually see the problem. The constant is; you have to go through the routine of removing the oil pump and replace it (check the restriction of the oil suction tube...) The variable is possible bearing damage. On a positive note, these slant sixes very durable to say the least, it takes a lot to hurt them IMO. Also if your rear cam plug fell out, you would have a massive oil leak. I am hopeful a new oil pump will resolve your issue.   

[barnett468]

So what would you all do at this juncture?

rebuild it or put a v8 in it.

[onebadfish]

Slant six bulletproof! Had a 1984 dodge miser. Short box step side with 4 speed overdrive. Met a B-Train on a gravel road one morning (highway 22 south). He was doing sixty MPH or so and so were we. He took out my windshield with rocks. I didn't know it at the time but he also took out my rad. I was young in my early twenties (I'm 55 now)My buddy and I were going dirt biking down to the crowsnest pass in southern Alberta. We were having a few beers and  listening to music and having a few smokes of the illegal kind....anyway drove that truck about 50 miles with no water. i finally noticed the motor was getting kinda sluggish haha and I pulled over when we were almost ready to unload. The motor quit and wouldn't turn over. Got out of the truck and noticed antifreeze from one end to the other. Said f&@k it and went dirt biking in the mountains. Got back three hours later and filled up the rad with water laying in the ditch. Pinched off the leaking cores. Motor was running rough but had to get back to Calgary. Anyway I drive that truck for almost a year after that and then put a new rad in it and drive it for six years before trading it in on a new dodge 4x4. I have a lot of respect for those old slants!!

[734406pk]

Slant six bulletproof! Had a 1984 dodge miser. Short box step side with 4 speed overdrive. Met a B-Train on a gravel road one morning (highway 22 south). He was doing sixty MPH or so and so were we. He took out my windshield with rocks. I didn't know it at the time but he also took out my rad. I was young in my early twenties (I'm 55 now)My buddy and I were going dirt biking down to the crowsnest pass in southern Alberta. We were having a few beers and  listening to music and having a few smokes of the illegal kind....anyway drove that truck about 50 miles with no water. i finally noticed the motor was getting kinda sluggish haha and I pulled over when we were almost ready to unload. The motor quit and wouldn't turn over. Got out of the truck and noticed antifreeze from one end to the other. Said f&@k it and went dirt biking in the mountains. Got back three hours later and filled up the rad with water laying in the ditch. Pinched off the leaking cores. Motor was running rough but had to get back to Calgary. Anyway I drive that truck for almost a year after that and then put a new rad in it and drive it for six years before trading it in on a new dodge 4x4. I have a lot of respect for those old slants!!

I agree! Those slant sixes can take some abuse!

[shadango]

   oh no.

Tyler pulled the pump yesterday. ..with just a little help from me... (he did great!)......

At first we rejoiced.....the pump gear had spun off the pump shaft. Well that would result in no pressure!

But then I noticed the shaft was seized.

Turns out there is squished metal in the pump......

Sigh.



No idea which way to go now.....try to pull the pan and investigate further?  A real pita with the engine in the car...not sure it's doable.  Throw a new pump on and see what happens? But then I feel like it'd a ticking time bomb.........

Damn.    

Engine ran fine right before the oil pump seized.  And even after, no noises etc that sound too bad compared to before.

Tyler had changed the oil 3 or 4 days prior and all was well.  This happened out of the blue.

[brads70]

Ouch, not good.   I guess it boils down to your budget or what you want to invest in this car? It's either throw a new oil pump on it and hope for the best..... or rebuild or replace the engine . 
"But then I feel like it'd a ticking time bomb........."    buy this statement I suspect you know what is going to happen....

[shadango]

Just can't figure out how something that big can get thru a screen at the pickup....

I guess either way the result is the same....

Would like to drop the pan but not sure it's doable in the car.

[blown motor]

Wow that's nasty.

[734406pk]

Just can't figure out how something that big can get thru a screen at the pickup....

I guess either way the result is the same....

Would like to drop the pan but not sure it's doable in the car.

I was thinking the same thing... Do you also see any fine metal inside the oil pump, or is it clean except for these metal flakes in the pic? I would drain the oil from the pan through a fine screen and see what you catch. Major bearing failure will create a ton of small metal particles that should be easy to see. You can also cut open the oil filter (with the special cutter) and see what is in the pleats. I use a filter cutter tool like this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900510/overview/

100 mic screen example:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=10879&gclid=Cj0KEQjwxLC9BRDb1dP8o7Op68IBEiQAwWggQK8ObU0o80UMMYN-vpk890mgd4qaYdoKhllXb5W9jxwaApV18P8HAQ

The engine may not be damaged at all (i hope) and possibly the metal that has seized the oil pump came from inside the recent oil filter maybe? If the oil and filter look normal then install the new pump. If you have metal in the drain oil and the inside of the oil filter looks like a silver mine, it's toast.
 
 Close inspection of the oil pump gear looks normal imo for a high mileage engine, no scratches to speak of and no sparkles. Those metal flakes do not appear to be bearing material to me, they look more like pieces of steel sheet metal from a oil filter canister... hmm...

[js29no]

I would definitely look at the oil that come out of it, see if there are any particles in it. GOOD LUCK!  

[shadango]

So what would the flow be as far as the oil....?  I assumed it would be  pickup oil flows to pump, then thru pump to filter then to block......

Or does it go piclip to filter to pump to block?

I wondered also if it was a defective filter maybe, sending the metal to the pump??  Because he drove the car a hit before changing the oil and filter
..used a purolater filter......

When we drained the pump while removing there seemed to be some ultra fine particles....Maybe. ....but then , the gear did spin on the oil pump shaft  so that could be from that.

If the pickup goes right to the pump, then maybe the screen on the pickup is missing.....

We will drain the oil through a paint strainer like for spray guns and see what happens.....probably be a big mess....lol

[734406pk]

So what would the flow be as far as the oil....?  I assumed it would be  pickup oil flows to pump, then thru pump to filter then to block......

Or does it go piclip to filter to pump to block?

I wondered also if it was a defective filter maybe, sending the metal to the pump??  Because he drove the car a hit before changing the oil and filter
..used a purolater filter......

When we drained the pump while removing there seemed to be some ultra fine particles....Maybe. ....but then , the gear did spin on the oil pump shaft  so that could be from that.

If the pickup goes right to the pump, then maybe the screen on the pickup is missing.....

We will drain the oil through a paint strainer like for spray guns and see what happens.....probably be a big mess....lol

The oil pump pressure regulator diverts flow to the suction side of the pump. The oil filter has an internal bypass valve for cold oil start up etc. Unlikely for the suction tube screen to fall off (pieces would be in the oil pump). The first order would be to find out if the engine is sound, if it's damaged, the rest doesn't matter. The paint strainer will work fine, look major metal. Save the oil to a clean container just in case... I'm not a fan of Purolator filters.

[shadango]

Will drain it tomorrow.....it ran no noisier than it ever had (typical slant 6 noise) evendor with no oil pressure.

Does the pump push or pull through the filter? In other words  does the pump get filtered oil from the filter or send dirty oil to the filter?