Author Topic: Traction Bars ??  (Read 8241 times)

Offline BadJoey

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Traction Bars ??
« on: August 10, 2016 - 12:59:14 PM »
Alright I'm back looking for more education . I have a 440 powered 1970 R/T Challenger . It was a 383 car with a 8.75 differential , it had a open rear end 332 gears . The tire size is stock . I put in a sur grip and the car still wheel hops . Are traction bars my next step ? If so what am I looking for  in the way of a traction bar ?  I do not want to change the gears or the tire size . Thanks  :working:




Offline onebadfish

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2016 - 01:37:24 PM »
I would look at a set of cal tracs. I installed them on my Cuda and I don't have any wheel hop issues. I left the leaf springs on though. I didn't opt for their single leaf option. You could also try a pinion snubber but they are a PITA on the street if set up too close.

Offline brads70

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2016 - 02:50:26 PM »
What condition are your shocks in?  :2cents:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2016 - 02:54:34 PM »
Most Mopar guys will tell you to run a pinion snubber and due to how Mopar designed the rear suspension/springs that traction bars either do not work or are actually counter productive. That said, "back in the day" I ran them on my E and B bodies, however I learned that "slapper" bars were not all that effective. Therefore I ran the type of bars that clamp onto the front of leafs and IMO they worked, in fact I put some on my 70 RT (admittedly more for ascetics and nostalgia than function).

You might try something like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfy-20995/overview/
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline crash340

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2016 - 03:01:11 PM »
Clamping the front sector of the spring pack is what made the difference in 70chall440's case not the slapper/traction bar, simply clamping them helps probably more than a pinion snubber. Shocks and a firm front spring sector will fix your issues. GOOD shocks. you may need to add a half spring to firm up the front sector as well
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline DocMel

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016 - 08:32:49 PM »
Yep : Slap type Traction bars dont work that great, but they sure looked awesome back in the day when you saw that tell-tale yellow set up :).  Ladder type bars looked even more awesome......  Ah yes...The 70's

Offline BadJoey

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2016 - 11:59:26 PM »
I would look at a set of cal tracs. I installed them on my Cuda and I don't have any wheel hop issues. I left the leaf springs on though. I didn't opt for their single leaf option. You could also try a pinion snubber but they are a PITA on the street if set up too close.

Car has a pinion snubber .

Offline BadJoey

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2016 - 12:01:17 AM »
What condition are your shocks in?  :2cents:

Shocks are air shocks about 10 years old but still hold air . Maybe 3 thousand miles .

Offline crash340

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2016 - 05:03:10 AM »
Get rid of those shocks, air shocks are garbage on a good day, get a decent pair of rear shocks, if they are 10 years old,,,, they are old and need replacement.
Are they original springs? if so how many leaves? 4 1/2?
Greg

73 Cuda
Brisbane, Australia

Offline dodj

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2016 - 07:23:13 AM »
Car has a pinion snubber .
I'm thinking from the stance of your car the snubber is not close enough to the floor to work. However, when the snubber is close enough to be really effective, it also smacks the floor on rough roads. Kind of annoying. So you may just want to keep the factory one instead of an adjustable.

IMO, you should toss the air shocks and get a decent set, then clamp leafs between the axle and front spring hanger. If the air shocks are what is giving you the rear ride height, you may need new springs.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline 73440

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016 - 08:03:05 AM »
http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

Now after reading this article , at least I understand how they are supposed to work.
67 440
72 413 / 727
73 Barracuda w/ 68 440
65 Plymouth Fury III , I sold ,was my Nana's car till 92 yo.
51 Ford F1 239 Flathead, flipped , new cab , stolen
59 BelAir 283 4 door original patina
01 Chevy van 420, 520 miles
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Offline HP2

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2016 - 09:52:59 AM »
http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html

Now after reading this article , at least I understand how they are supposed to work.


Some good info in there and it shows why most slapper bars are a bad idea...if they are not cut to fit exactly, which most guys don't do, they tend to hit the spring right at its weakest point. If you can adjust them to hit right under the spring eye, then they can be effective, but their low ride height can cause clearance issues with speed bumps and curb cuts and hope you ever have a flat tire with those as could potentially dig right into the pavement dependign on rim size and tire aspect ratio.

It also shows why the Cal-Trac is effective. The bell-crank piece in the design is a dynamic spring shortening device. As it rotates, it changes the force intersect point from the spring eye to the point 6" back from the, creating an effectively shorter front segment. This, in theory, creates a dynamic version of the original mopar SS spring design. Cal-Tracs were developed by a Mustang racer who was rules limited by his class to retain the stock mounting points, yet he was trying to devise a way to  create the more rigid front segment in his symetrical Ford design that would mimmick the  asymetrical design of the mopar leaf.

So, the first thing you should try is getting some basic leaf spring clamps from you local parts house, and adding these to the front segment to stiffen it up. If this is effective, then you can look at ways to achieve your ride height while getting rid of the air shocks. In most cases, this can be done by adding a leaf to your pack. I'd suggest using a full length leaf just under the main leaf. Get a regular main leaf and cut the eyes off. This allows you to set this second leaf tip to align with the front spring eye, thus reinforcing a known weak area, while improving rate to avoid hop, and providing lift to the ride height.

Offline GreenFish

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2016 - 09:55:46 AM »
Please do not put slapper bars on your mopar. Leave them for the Chevy guys :bigsmile:
70 cuda, 440, KB pistons, 10.5:1 compression, edlebrock heads,RacerBrown cam, 5-Speed Tremec, Megasquirt EFI

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2016 - 01:15:39 PM »
That's a great website, makes me want to go and make some.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Traction Bars ??
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2016 - 01:34:26 PM »
I like the air shocks for their versatility. I have air shocks as well but my springs are new and so are the air shocks. I know people here tend to dismiss them and believe they will eventually damage the top mount but I run them with 40 psI normally. Crank them up to 100 when I need clearance for a wider drag radial at the track. I looked at my buddy's 69 runner and he has been running air shocks on it for 25 years and the top support for the shocks is the same as my Cuda. Maybe it was changed-I don't know.