Crank the Torsion Bars

[dfrazz]

I like it when the top of the front tire is just inside the fender when looking at it straight on from the side, so IMO you are just a little low.

[anlauto]

I would agree..1" to 2" too low in the front.

[Katfish]

I agree, I like the look where the top of the tire is just above the body line.

[burdar]

In your case you can go up at least an inch and still look really good.

[72bluNblu]

There is a big difference with cars in pics that look cool and cars that are actually driven.

Yes. It's called proper backspacing. Buy the right rims and you can lower to your heart's desire. I run 275/35/17's up front on 17x9's, barely stay off the shorter lower bumpstops I installed even with 1.12" torsion bars, and have no issues with rubbing on the fenders. I've put over 60k miles on my Challenger, and had to raise it slightly because having the header flanges only 3.5" off the pavement was too annoying with the local speedbumps, not because anything was rubbing. I did initially make some adjustments to my passenger fender, but I've since discovered that had more to do with the shape and condition of the bodywork on my passenger fender than anything else, the driver's side never had any issues at all.



On that note, the red barracuda in that picture is way too low to be running stock torsion bars. It will be constantly be riding on the lower bumpstops at that height. The OE lower bumpstops are progressive, so it's not always obvious when they're contacted. That car should be higher if the original bars are going to be retained.

Make sure you are happy with the ride height before the alignment.

I hear you on the fans. A lot of people expend a lot of time and $ on electric fans only to go back to clutch mechanical for simplicity and functionality.

Expensive electric fans aren't necessarily good electric fans. Or properly sized electric fans. Or properly controlled electric fans. I use a $100 Dorman reproduction of a '95-2000 Ford Contour V6 dual electric fan with a Dakota Digital controller on my Duster with a 26" radiator and 400+ hp 340, it will maintain whatever temperature above the thermostat temp that I program the fans for even in 110* weather. I was already running a 100 amp alternator, but the fan, controller, relays and wiring cost me under $300. There are a lot of factors to consider when it comes to selecting an electric fan and controller. Electric fans that are properly sized and controlled, when installed correctly, are more than capable of cooling these cars adequately. Not every car needs one, a stock mechanical fan can work just fine on a lot of cars, but for functionality you can't beat having your fans on when you need them, off when you don't, and the ability to program when they're on. Like having them run for a minute or so after shutdown in the summer to keep things from boiling over after the car is shut down. As far as reliability, I've seen more than one clutch fan part ways with the water pump and find it's way into the radiator. They're not perfect either.

[EMCD]

Thanks guys. I'll bump it up an inch or two and see how it performs. What diameter are the stock SB TBs?

[72bluNblu]

It depends, but if it's just a plain jane 318 car they're probably .88's. That's only a 107 lb/in wheel rate. The 1.12's in my Challenger have a 270 lb/in rate, and it's just a 318 car too. Upping the wheel rate reduces the amount of suspension travel the car will use, so you can reduce the available amount of travel by lowering the car. If you lower the car much from the factory height using the factory torsion bars you'll run out of suspension travel and will can end up on the bumpstops even during normal driving. The more you want to lower the bigger the torsion bars will have to be, and the better your shocks will have to be if you want a decent ride quality. All depends on what you're planning on using the car for.

[EMCD]

It's a true 340 cuda. So. Maybe 1" TBs? I'm just looking for a good handling street fighter. No autocross or drag racing

[HP2]

Stock bars are never any larger than .92, and those were 440/Hemi bars. Everything else is smaller.I believe special package cars like the AAR/TA used .90, while other small blocks used .88 and six bangers got .86. .88 bars have 107# of rate to them. By contrast, a 1" bar is 175# and a 1.12 is  270#.

Mopars are severely hampered by t-bar availability compared to Brand C and F coil spring options. As a point of comparison, a "street fighter" type of 1st gen Camaro will typically use a 600-800# spring rate, which is comparable to a 300-400# wheel rate ( mopar t-bar rates are 1:1 to wheel rate, btw). So to get up in a comparable range, a mopar's selection is limited to 1.12, 1.18, and 1.22.

[72bluNblu]

Depends on your tire choice too. Unless you're going to run modern compound tires on 17 or 18" rims then there isn't much of a point going past even a 1.06" bar, you won't have enough grip to need those kind of wheel rates with any DOT legal street tires for a 15" rim. I ran my 1.12" bars with crappy 235/60/15's and 255/60/17's for awhile, the car was ridiculously loose, too much rate for the grip available and that was without sway bars. With 275/40/17's on it all the way around now the 1.12" bars work pretty well on the street.

Firm Feel offers E body bars in 1", 1.06", 1.12", and 1.18", but they also still have a tag on there about doing custom sizes/wheel rates. I know they've done 1.22" bars before. Hotchkis is selling 1.1" torsion bars for E-bodies not sure what the wheel rate is though, and P-S-T sells 1.03" bars. Bergman Auto Craft had 1.15" bars listed for E-bodies for awhile, but I don't see them on his page anymore. I think he was advertising those as a 300 lb/in rate, which is what I run on my Duster with Hotchkis Fox's. That car handles very well on the street.  I have a set of 1.08's from a company called "SwayAway", although I don't think they're currently making any E-body bars.

Also keep in mind that for any of the larger bars you'll need better shocks, RCD Bilsteins, Hotchkis Fox's, etc unless your want your eyeballs rattled loose. I ran KYB's on my Challenger for a long time with the FFI 1.12" bars, when I swapped it over to RCD Bilsteins it was like a whole different car.

[EMCD]

I'm running 15" BFG TAs. I won't be upgrading to larger tires or anything close to racing compounds. With a diameter of .88, I'm thinking I might just try adjusting the height and see how it feels before investing in new TBs. who knows, I might be surprised and find that all along it was the ride height that was causing my poor handling characteristics.

[72bluNblu]

I think you'll find that the ride height is causing you some problems, but I don't think they'll be what you think they are.

Looking at the ride height of your car I feel pretty comfortable in saying your car is probably sitting on the bump stops. That does a bunch of things from a handling perspective. One being that the progressive nature of the stock bump stops makes it feel like you have a much higher wheel rate. You're basically using the bump stops as suspension.

Raising the car will return the suspension duties to the torsion bars. And you'll find that the .88" bars result in a car that is significantly undersprung. The suspension will be overly soft, lots of body roll, lots of front end dive on braking, etc.

Even for hockey pucks like BFG T/A's you can almost double the stock wheel rate. I mean, definitely raise the car up to where you want it and see what you have, because it will be a big change if you're sitting on the bump stops now (and I bet you are). But if you want the car to handle decently you'll need larger torsion bars. If you're planning on keeping the 15" BFG T/A's I would suggest looking at torsion bars in the 1" to 1.03" range. Larger than that and you'll have more wheel rate than the grip you have available, but going to bars close to 1" will dramatically improve the handling ability.

[EMCD]

I be thou are right about the bump stops. When the suspension travels down the car gets squirrely. I have a larger aftermarket front sway bar. Will it still be sloppy after the lift? If I go to 1.03 TBs, can I get away with the cheaper PSTs and the stock boots and clips? Trying to save some dough. Thanks for the help!

[72bluNblu]

It gets squirrely on the down travel because there is no suspension travel to speak of, all of that load just gets transferred to the chassis. After the lift it will be different, but you'll end up with really soft suspension, body roll, lots of weight transfer. The sway bar will help some, but it can't make up for a 107 lb/in wheel rate on a car that has front corner weight's that are probably over 900 lbs per side.

A lot of folks run the PST bars because of their pricing. It should be about a 200 lb/in bar, which is what I ran on my Duster when it had 1" bars (a-body bars are shorter and therefore stiffer for the same diameter). I was running 225/60/15's at the time and found the suspension was still plenty soft, I actually upgraded to 1.12" bars on that car as well. But the 200 lb/in rate should be a decent match to the BFG T/A's, and sway bars front and rear will help with the body roll I was still getting (I was running without sway bars).

You should also have no issues with the rubber boots and clips. Just heat them up in boiling water before install so the rubber stretches over the larger bar without tearing. The hex ends are the same size regardless.

[EMCD]

I pulled the trigger today on the PST 1.03" bars. they'll be here by early next week. since the KYB shocks are so stiff, will that offset some of the flex in the softer 1.03" TBs?