Author Topic: What is the best Aftermarket Suspension System for my 71 572 Hemi Cuda Restomod  (Read 12460 times)

Offline EMCD

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SB 360 stroked to 408, MSD box, distributor, coil, RPM intake, RHS heads, Doug,s headers (415HP), 727 tranny with B&M shift kit with TCI street fighter converter. Rebuilt 8 3/4 with 3.73 gears. It could be the TBs. But, I throw $$ at this thing all the time and I'm lucky to get marginal improvements. The steering is vague at best, body roll is minimal, but the lack of steering feel makes me wary of pushing the car very hard at all. Every true muscle car guy that has driven it, says it handles better then their car. To me I'd be terrified to drive theirs after comments like that...




Offline Devil

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SB 360 stroked to 408, MSD box, distributor, coil, RPM intake, RHS heads, Doug,s headers (415HP), 727 tranny with B&M shift kit with TCI street fighter converter. Rebuilt 8 3/4 with 3.73 gears. It could be the TBs. But, I throw $$ at this thing all the time and I'm lucky to get marginal improvements. The steering is vague at best, body roll is minimal, but the lack of steering feel makes me wary of pushing the car very hard at all. Every true muscle car guy that has driven it, says it handles better then their car. To me I'd be terrified to drive theirs after comments like that...


Ok, you have the FF3 on the car.  Is the "vague" steering as in there is a dead spot, or the steering just seems overly assisted?  The famous "1-finger Chrysler steering"? 

I've done the Mopar Action shim trick on the PS pump to get better road feel out of it.  It reduces that "1-finger steering" to a more comfortable, better road feel level.  www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf

Also "vague" steering can occur from the pitman arm moving around.  This setup puts the arm in double sheer and nearly kills the arm moving around.  http://firmfeel.com/e_body_mopar_sector_support_kit.html

Ryan's Cars in Barns

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hemipwr70/
http://carsinbarns.blogspot.com




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71 Challenger R/T Clone
69 Charger R/T SE
70 Barracuda
74 Dart Swinger
93 RamCharger
88 Caprice Classic Brougham

Offline EMCD

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I'm probably not being specific enough. the steering is "firm". it takes some energy turning it while stopped. when driving the car it has a 1/4" delay in the steering before the box is engaged. I rebuilt the steering linkage, but it still drives like my dad's old plow truck. maybe after I raise the front end up, realign it will track, and steer more precisely.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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is the coupler assembled correctly , if the shoes are in wrong you will have excessive play .

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline HP2

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I am gathering parts for my 1971 Cuda Resto mod Project.  Its a non numbers matching 340 car that was totally disassembled about 10 years ago, painted in FE5 Red,  and re-assembled.    I am going to put a MuscleMotors or Tim Banning 572 Fuel Injected Hemi and Passon 4 Speed w/Overdrive, with a Dana 60.  Leaning towards keeping my 15" Rallyes and going with 11" Wilwood on all 4's.   Although the 17" Year Ones are tempting me,  just don't know if I like the look of the bigger wheels.   

15" rubber choices will limited your handling capabilities to such a point that significantly stepping up the suspension system would be moot. Now if you are deciding to spring for $400 each 15", Z rated racing radials, then its another story. Stepping up to 17" rims will give you access to UHP street tires which could then justify a significantly more robust handling system. (btw, 12" brakes are possible with 15" rims, 13" brakes with 17" rims. If you going for it, don't sell yourself short on stopping power.)

  However........I thought I was set on the RMS AlterKation and Street Lynx system,    but I am getting mixed reviews.  A lot of people like the Hotchkis TVS and keeping the original K member, but getting the better Torsion Bars, and Stiffening the Body in a number of areas.     The shop that is doing the work really wants to do the AlterKation front Coil System,  and CALTRAC Split MonoSpring and Traction Bar setup in the rear.   

 What about a Hotchkis Front and CALTRAC Rear?

   This is mostly for street with occasional strip use (not any kind of points series, just non serious bracket racing on occasion)   I will admit suspension is one of my knowledge weak areas,  so I am not very familiar with all the systems and parts language, but I have money set aside, and want to get good input before I buy and then its too late.  Not so worried about best pricing,  just want the best system.    I am open to recommendations.  I would also like to hear from people who have these setups and how they like them/don't like them.   If there are other systems on the market I am not considering,  please share.

  Thanks!
 
  -Bob

Any of those suspension systems are nice and provide a wide range of adjustability combined with the ability to quickly change rates. Do you really need type of adjustability that in a  street car that will be set and forget or even the occasional bracket blast where sticky tires and a prepared track are present?

See, a tire could care less whether its a torsion, leaf, coil, or air spring that is forcing it into the ground. All it cares about it grip. Suspension is  about maximizing that grip, within the limits of the tire construction and compounds, so the geometry around how the suspension moves and provides that contact force to the tire becomes a very important delineating factor.  In stock form, Mopars have geometry that was significantly ahead of its competitors of the day, and is still pretty good by modern standards. They only require a few tweaks to get things working much better.

Let me ask you this...can you feel the difference half a tank of gas makes on under/over steer when pushing your car through the corner? If so, then the ability to alter spring rates and intersection points and shock tuning may be for you. If you could care less and just don't want a wallowing pig, then pick a system, or mix up some key parts of proven systems, install, and enjoy.

I'm not surprised your shop wants the Altk front and Caltrac rear. Coil overs are very popular and usually lighter weight and the Caltrac system is a proven strip performer. that combo is a good for a serious strip machine. But they aren't the only way to skin that cat.

Offline EMCD

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today's drive is a primary example. Around town it handles quite well, predictable. I get on the highway and jam on it. I merge into the middle lane and the car pulls me into the far right lane. it feels like I have to over correct it when I steer it hard. it's scares the crap out of me on highway at 75-85 MPH. Ideas?

Offline BobBejeski

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15" rubber choices will limited your handling capabilities to such a point that significantly stepping up the suspension system would be moot. Now if you are deciding to spring for $400 each 15", Z rated racing radials, then its another story. Stepping up to 17" rims will give you access to UHP street tires which could then justify a significantly more robust handling system. (btw, 12" brakes are possible with 15" rims, 13" brakes with 17" rims. If you going for it, don't sell yourself short on stopping power.)

Any of those suspension systems are nice and provide a wide range of adjustability combined with the ability to quickly change rates. Do you really need type of adjustability that in a  street car that will be set and forget or even the occasional bracket blast where sticky tires and a prepared track are present?

See, a tire could care less whether its a torsion, leaf, coil, or air spring that is forcing it into the ground. All it cares about it grip. Suspension is  about maximizing that grip, within the limits of the tire construction and compounds, so the geometry around how the suspension moves and provides that contact force to the tire becomes a very important delineating factor.  In stock form, Mopars have geometry that was significantly ahead of its competitors of the day, and is still pretty good by modern standards. They only require a few tweaks to get things working much better.

Let me ask you this...can you feel the difference half a tank of gas makes on under/over steer when pushing your car through the corner? If so, then the ability to alter spring rates and intersection points and shock tuning may be for you. If you could care less and just don't want a wallowing pig, then pick a system, or mix up some key parts of proven systems, install, and enjoy.

I'm not surprised your shop wants the Altk front and Caltrac rear. Coil overs are very popular and usually lighter weight and the Caltrac system is a proven strip performer. that combo is a good for a serious strip machine. But they aren't the only way to skin that cat.

   Great Stuff.    I'm soaking up every word.   This is the kind of input I was hoping this thread would produce.    :popcorn:  But I also do like hearing how systems feel from owners that have them installed.  I'm particularly interested in hearing from AlterKation owners who have been behind the wheel of other cars and have a opinion on the difference.  The detailed list of parts that were installed from each company with prices and links was awesome too!! :wow:

  -Bob

Offline josh7965

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I just installed the control freak on my challenger. Viking adjustable coil overs. Wilwood brakes power rack and pinion. Seems like a great kit and the customer service was great. 

Offline EMCD

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Sorry, I totally Bogarted your original post. My only recommendation is go slowly, don't dump too much into it because you might feel like you got half the performance you expected for 2x the investment.

Offline BobBejeski

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Sorry, I totally Bogarted your original post. My only recommendation is go slowly, don't dump too much into it because you might feel like you got half the performance you expected for 2x the investment.

 No worries,    I was getting good information just reading the back and forth.     Keep it going......

  That Control Freak looks great....I like the idea of the coils.     I will have to look into that more.

 -Bob

Offline BobBejeski

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I would go with Hotchkis but not the TVS since their subframe connectors hang pretty low.  I would piece in all of the Hotchkis parts instead, keep in mind their rear springs will lower your car 1-2".  I went with the most of the Hotchkis suspension parts on my '70 except the sub-frame connectors due the side exhaust and kept the stock rear springs.  I also went with 18x8 and 18x9.5 wheels for better traction. The car handles like its on rails!




 If I go with the US CAR TOOL  Level II Kit   Core Support, Torque Boxes, Fender Support, Frame Connectors,     and also go Hotchkis,  then I don't need the subframe connectors correct?   No reason to do both I am assuming???

-Bob

Offline Devil

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Correct, the US Car Tool Lvl 2 setup of floor contouring sub frame connectors are far better then the hotchkis ones.  BUT the Hotchkis ones just bolt in (minor improvement over stock) and the US Car Tool need to be welded in, which is the best and proper way to do it.
Ryan's Cars in Barns

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hemipwr70/
http://carsinbarns.blogspot.com




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
71 Challenger R/T Clone
69 Charger R/T SE
70 Barracuda
74 Dart Swinger
93 RamCharger
88 Caprice Classic Brougham

Offline Chryco Psycho

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The problem with coils is the frame & shock tower are not designed to take the load there , the Freak rides at least has a decent bracket there but it still may need bracing to keep the frame rail from twisting there

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline josh7965

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The problem with coils is the frame & shock tower are not designed to take the load there , the Freak rides at least has a decent bracket there but it still may need bracing to keep the frame rail from twisting there

 
I agree. I had the xv frame stiffing kit installed but The shop that did the work did a ****ty job. Plus the kit is junk. I went with the us car tool fender brace


Offline onebadfish

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I installed the Hotchkis frame connectors on mine. They definitely made an improvement. They weld on the the front sub frame and bolt on to the rear in front of the spring perch mounts. They look COOL too as they hang down just low enough to see them but in no way are so low to cause any grief going over speed bumps.