Author Topic: Ready to build 512  (Read 27390 times)

Offline 73restomod

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2016 - 03:17:21 AM »
Google engineering papers regarding their findings with open vs closed chambers quench vs no quench, it works no questions asked, it's not black magic. Not to many years ago cylinder head porting was held in similar regard, like it was some sort of voodoo. Look at how small direct injection chambers have gotten, how much compression is being run, (LT4 chevy runs 11.4 to 1 on pump 87 without detonating), with all the OE's setting quench between .035 and .045. The Quench effect is just starting at .06, and gets better up until pistons hit the head, which could be looked at as too much quench lol.

It works by squeezing out the gases very rapidly, this rapid movement of the mixture does 2 things. One it remixes the air and fuel charge, and two, the movement around the chamber limits exposure time of fuel to hot spots in the chamber. Thus reducing detonation issues. Big open chambers need more advanced ignition timing to completely burn, this is bad because the heat has more time to build creating more hot spots in the chamber, the mixture is also more static and the fuel starts falling out of suspension, it sits on the hot spots, as well as creating more load on the crankshaft, pistons, and rods.

There are caveats to the "rule of .040" thou, like large bearing clearances, aluminium rods, that would cause a need for larger static quench, but your effective or running quench is actually smaller because of metal growth and collapse of the oil film tolerance. Some engine builders have successfully run motors with as little as .025, on N/A motors with tight tolerances and high grade parts. So how the builder prefers to build the motors oiling system, thin oil vs thick oil, HV oil pump,  Standard volume oil pump, ceramic coatings, coated bearings, etc., will also affect the final tolerances, and ultimately the final static quench.
In your shoes, I would ask him to shoot for at least .045, unless he has a specific reason not too like one I listed above. In the end its your motor, your money make it the best you can with what you have, for me that means proper quench.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016 - 03:23:20 AM by 73restomod »




Offline 734406pk

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2016 - 05:44:29 AM »
Google engineering papers regarding their findings with open vs closed chambers quench vs no quench, it works no questions asked, it's not black magic. Not to many years ago cylinder head porting was held in similar regard, like it was some sort of voodoo. Look at how small direct injection chambers have gotten, how much compression is being run, (LT4 chevy runs 11.4 to 1 on pump 87 without detonating), with all the OE's setting quench between .035 and .045. The Quench effect is just starting at .06, and gets better up until pistons hit the head, which could be looked at as too much quench lol.

It works by squeezing out the gases very rapidly, this rapid movement of the mixture does 2 things. One it remixes the air and fuel charge, and two, the movement around the chamber limits exposure time of fuel to hot spots in the chamber. Thus reducing detonation issues. Big open chambers need more advanced ignition timing to completely burn, this is bad because the heat has more time to build creating more hot spots in the chamber, the mixture is also more static and the fuel starts falling out of suspension, it sits on the hot spots, as well as creating more load on the crankshaft, pistons, and rods.

There are caveats to the "rule of .040" thou, like large bearing clearances, aluminium rods, that would cause a need for larger static quench, but your effective or running quench is actually smaller because of metal growth and collapse of the oil film tolerance. Some engine builders have successfully run motors with as little as .025, on N/A motors with tight tolerances and high grade parts. So how the builder prefers to build the motors oiling system, thin oil vs thick oil, HV oil pump,  Standard volume oil pump, ceramic coatings, coated bearings, etc., will also affect the final tolerances, and ultimately the final static quench.
In your shoes, I would ask him to shoot for at least .045, unless he has a specific reason not too like one I listed above. In the end its your motor, your money make it the best you can with what you have, for me that means proper quench.

 :iagree: A very well written explanation!
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2016 - 11:29:08 AM »
Attached is my build sheet. I guess quench plays an important part in this engine. .041 head gasket and zero deck height. Hope this posts....first time trying it with Tapatalk.


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Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2016 - 01:38:41 PM »

Hey Onebadfish

What kind of vacuum are you pulling on that motor?

1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2016 - 02:01:53 PM »
I don't know. Running mechanical brakes so wasn't an issue. I could check it if you are curious? But it won't be anytime soon...


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Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2016 - 03:23:09 PM »

When you get a chance, but I'd be surprised if it's over 8-9".

I don't know. Running mechanical brakes so wasn't an issue. I could check it if you are curious? But it won't be anytime soon...


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1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2016 - 03:36:26 PM »
Yes. Big duration cam.


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Offline 734406pk

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2016 - 04:29:06 PM »
Hey Onebadfish

What kind of vacuum are you pulling on that motor?

I was wondering the same thing...That engine must sound Bad Ass at idle with 108 deg LSA!!  :cooldancing:
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2016 - 07:20:32 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/attribution_link?a=u7b6w1tMiXM&u=/watch%3Fv%3D3b648srNgC8%26feature%3Dem-upload_owner

Well see and hear for yourself...Bad Ass....Yep!


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Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2016 - 07:21:04 PM »

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2016 - 07:24:07 PM »

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2016 - 07:24:49 PM »
Tried to post a link from you tube but doesn't seem to want to work. I will fire up computer later....


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Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2016 - 07:31:45 PM »
Tried to post a link from you tube but doesn't seem to want to work. I will fire up computer later....


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Actually it posted three times above....
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2016 - 07:33:01 PM »
Funny I don't see it on my iPhone?


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Offline onebadfish

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Re: Ready to build 512
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2016 - 08:11:37 PM »
OK see it now....so sorry.. :banghead: