Need serious help and advice!

[cudabob496]

a small hole drilled in thermostat allows block to vent properly when filling
with coolant.

A two row aluminum radiator will out-cool a 4 row copper brass radiator.

[Wadmin1021]

What do consider overheating?  You haven't told us yet, is it boiling over, or what temp are you getting, and where and how are you getting the temp reading?

A temp of 200-220 is not high for a idling engine. 

First, go back to a 180 or 190 thermostat:   Beleive it or not, your radiator fluid needs to be exposed to the radiator itself for it to cool, and a 160 will allow the fluid to flow thru the radiator core without the real time it takes to radiate the heat from the fluid as it flows thru the rad  And yes, a 180 will not open to about 200, thats normal

Also, I really doubt the heat prob, if you really have one now,  was, or is now caused now but the recent rebuild:  Again, if the coolant system is good to go, you should not exp. overheating

The problem, at least to me, can only lie in four  areas:

1. Radiator:  I'm not a big fan of aluminum radiators.  Frankly, for a mild build big block, there is not need for one, and the stock original rad did the job just fine.  I have never had luck with an aluminum radiator cooling as well as a stock one, just me

2. Shroud:  You need one

3. Coolant flow:  Ensure there is no blockage or constriction anywhere in the coolant circuit:  Anywhere in the block, heads, radiator or hoses

4.  Timing (maybe)  But if your engine is "running good" that prob isnt a factor

 If indeed the rebuild is the cuase, you have a serious prob outside of the coolant system

Finally, I dont use a temp IR gun to see if I have a cooling prob.  Get a reliable temp gauge, preferable digital, and get the reading from where it should be: from the temp sensor in the block   Again, anything reading 220 at idle is just fine

First, lets go back to basics:

Let us know what you consider "overheating" in temps:  If it really is high (to me above 220 at idle)

Put the 180 or maybe a 190 stat back on
Try a shroud
If no joy, try a stock radiator

\\Again, what temp reading do you consider "overheating"

Okay DocMel, what do we consider overheating??? At idle, and temp IR gun aside, we closely watch the overflow tube that we have going into a steel bucket (for now only). The antifreeze spews out of the overflow tube boiling hot and the radiator cap starts to vent steam. At this point, we either shut down or cool with a hose. We are not car aficionados but we aren't idiots either. We know when a motor is getting too hot and ours does. Again, as I stated earlier, when we run the motor and mist the front of the rad with a garden hose, the engine runs great and never heats or steams. So this almost leads me to believe the rad is not doing its job. Either because we don't have something set up correctly, or it just needs a diff rad. This is our first ever ground up restoration and first ever complete motor build so mistakes are possible. What we may have to do is get a stock radiator as you suggested and get a shroud for that radiator.

Also to address some of the other tips, regarding our pulley sizes, your concerns make a lot of sense. Our crank pulley is smaller than our WP pulley by a little less than an inch. Our crank pulley measures 5" across. We got 99% of our motor parts from 440 Source including both pulleys.

Thoughts on all this?

[mopar jack]

Are you leaving enough air space in the radiator for expansion? If you don't have a recovery system you need to leave the water level approximately 1 inch low or let it expand out so that it will find it's own level

[cudabob496]

Are you leaving enough air space in the radiator for expansion? If you don't have a recovery system you need to leave the water level approximately 1 inch low or let it expand out so that it will find it's own level

ya, with that small radiator, the top 4 or 5 inches might be empty, after running
engine for a while

[AARuFAST]

Question is this an original 440 car?
Shroud bolts to rad support a 26" rad will not bolt on rad  support if the 22" rad is original to car.


Brad had good eye on the pulleys!

A Fan Clutch should not spin more than 1 1/4 turns.  If Fan Clutch spins more than 2 or more turns it is shot.
There are two different Fan Clutches non-A/C and A/C  different propellers to move water.
Did you open heater valve to heat and run motor as you filled radiator?
Sounds like air pocket............good luck....

[cudabob496]

its easy to mount a shroud to anything, with 1/16x1 inch x 4ft lenghts
of aluminum from Home Depot. Easy to make your own brackets.
Cut to fit. Drill holes. Bolt up. Or you can use those ling black plastic
clips that hold a tranny cooler to a radiator.

Fan should be 1/2 inch from radiator. without a shroud, you're just
churning air.

[Chryco Psycho]

Everything is good advice
I use Stant thermostats Only & have had problems with most Chinese built ones .
 The engine will need 1000 miles or so to seat in & run cooler but it sounds like you have not driven it yet at all .
if water works you are not getting enough air flow to move the heat away from the rad so a shroud will be a big help , it will likely be OK  when driven as long as you are moving & not sitting in traffic as well  .
 the rad is probably good enough with 18" clutch fan + shroud , I doubt a stock system would do any better

[dodj]

I have a 440, 26" champion 3 row with no shroud, 440 source aluminium water pump with matched pump/gasket and a 195 T-stat. No problems. In your case, the 22" rad may be the sole culprit. Or you could have a poor match with your water pump and housing. Some pumps will not work with some housings. The impeller depth in the housing in important. If it is off, you lose flow. Check to make sure you are using recommended pump/gasket/housing.
Toss the 160 stat. It will only cause your engine to wear out faster than it should. It won't help a cooling system that has a problem.
Buy a 195 stat, but put it in a pot of boiling water first and make sure it works as it should.
If you have those corrugated rad hoses, replace them. They cost flow.
If you have a hose(s) with a spring in it, replace it with one without a spring. They cost flow.
Perhaps buy a new rad cap. 16#. If the system can't pressurize, it will vent (steam off) earlier than it should.
That's all I can think of. Hope it helps.
 

PS. Depending on the cost of your IR gun, they can be very inaccurate. If you can, try to verify it's accuracy. Some read different temps depending on the surface colour/condition (in my experience anyway). Maybe aim it at a pot of boiling water and ensure it is close to 212*.

[xtopfuel]

I say it's possibly lean and advanced and please put a shroud on it

[Chryco Psycho]

You want the timing set approx 16*at idle & 36 total , retarded will make excessive heat too & is a more common culprit
Lean can be an issue as well but at idle the mixture screws will sort that out

[stinger]

my car has a 440 and 22" aluminum rad and when fresh it ran hot. the problem was not the rad but timing and a/f ratio. I would also suggest what Chryco posted on timing and start with an a/f around 12.5 to see if it runs cooler,then you will know if it's just tuning. I've bought the tools and spent the time tuning my engine and the overheating is gone completely.

[cudabob496]

A well vented engine bay helps cooling a lot, allowing more air
flow through radiator. I removed those flaps that were over
the wheel wells.  Plus I have a vented hood and alum rad, so rarely have to turn
on the electric fan.

[xtopfuel]

any chance of a pic from front end

[jason340]

Just an FYI. I have an original 440 car and it came with a 22"rad. It is now stroked and has a 195 degree thermostat for the 6 pack and does not overheat. Oh it is a copper rad.

[734406pk]

Everything is good advice
I use Stant thermostats Only & have had problems with most Chinese built ones .
 The engine will need 1000 miles or so to seat in & run cooler but it sounds like you have not driven it yet at all .
if water works you are not getting enough air flow to move the heat away from the rad so a shroud will be a big help , it will likely be OK  when driven as long as you are moving & not sitting in traffic as well  .
 the rad is probably good enough with 18" clutch fan + shroud , I doubt a stock system would do any better

 
The engine tune was dialed in after cam break-in and is running very well. The problem stems from the 3 row Champion 22" radiator design dimensions... First issue was the stock fan clutch wouldn't fit between the water pump and the rad, not enough space. So a new Jag fan clutch was installed (fit perfectly).
 After first fire and break-in (misting the radiator to get through it) The temp at the radiator (at idle) would raise above the thermostat temp (180F) heading steadily towards 200-205F. A light hose mist would bring the temp right back down quickly. Scanning the engine and radiator with an IR temp gun @ 195-200F showed the radiator was just as hot as the engine at both the coolant inlet and outlet ports. The fan clutch temp was only 100-110 deg F. This is with the hood open btw.
 The Champion EC2375 radiator is shorter than the 22" oem and doesn't support an oem fan shroud. Champion offers there own fan shroud with use with electric fans but the dual 10" electric fan setup is only 1600 advertised cfm combined. The larger single electric fan setup will not fit between the radiator and water pump pulley.

http://www.championradiators.com/plymouth-barracuda-22-inch-big-block-radiator-1970-1974
http://www.championradiators.com/SPAL-medium-profile-fans

 After reviewing many options, the simplest test/solution so far is to buy the Champion single fan shroud for the 22" radiator and re-cut the fan opening (16") larger to fit the OEM fan with the Jag clutch. IMO, once the Jag clutch gets warm enough to engage the fan there will be plenty of air flow through the radiator.
  This set up might need an oem style ducted fan ring added to the shroud.