Author Topic: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration  (Read 6891 times)

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019 - 09:04:50 PM »
I know the exact feeling, I went through the same thing when I did my 70 Challenger back 2000 - 2002. You are going about this in exactly the right way, slow, careful and precise. One thing I can tell you reference MIG welding; do not give into the temptation to run a bead ever (as in a continuous weld) not matter how much there is to weld up or how thick you think the material is, rather use a series of short spot welds (called stitch welding)  and move around the panel that needs to be welded. I am sure someone will jump on here and describe how they ran short beads and didn't have any problems and that is possible, but you run the risk of putting too much heat into the panel and have the panel warp which will cause you even more pain. You don't have to ask me how I know, I will tell you that I did this many times before I pulled my head out and stuck to stitch welding.

Do not be afraid to stop and knock down some of the spot welds with a flap wheel once in a while but be careful not to put to much heat into the panel with the flap wheel either. Having a air hose available is a huge benefit in controlling the heat; make a few welds, blow on it with the air hose a little and then back to welding, blow some air onto it, knock down some welds, repeat over and over. It is slow and time consuming but the results will be worth it.

Also, sometimes you can weld a panel or part of a panel, grind it down and get it to look like it was never welded; this is the exception rather than the rule. We all want it to look like this all the time, but it just doesn't work like that. You have to learn to accept the fact that some (most) of your welded panels will not come out looking like there was never anything welded there. This was a problem for me, I had it in my head that I could make this happen and tried very hard to get it, the result was that in some cases I ground through the panel I had just welded... Also I got some very thin panels which I then had to go back and fix, again... The key is to get the joints welded and knocked down to a point where a small skim coat of body filler will cover it (thin skim coat as in less than 1/8th to 1/16th inch).

One last thing reference welding, the distance from the tip of your welder to the panel you are welding is important, practice getting the right distance that delivers a good weld with penetration and has good gas shielding. You need to learn the trigger and the sound of a good weld; it should sound like bacon sizzling on a pan, if it is spitting and sputtering it is not penetrating. Remember to cut the end of you wire off before you start welding, even just a little bit because it gives you a clean wire to start the weld verses the typical ball of melted wire which is dirty and sometimes doesn't like to start. Whatever you are welding needs to be relatively clean, MIG will weld through a lot more crap than TIG will, but to get a good clean weld you need to the 2 panels/parts relatively clean. The backs should be relatively clean as well near the weld, like on those quarters there is undercoating or sound deadening on the inside and that will both burn and get sucked into your weld.

Sorry for the long response, but I learned all of this the hard way. It is not hard, just takes patience and a little thought and you will be good.
Thank you
Greatly appreciate your thoughts on this!

« Last Edit: March 27, 2019 - 09:06:21 PM by 340challconvert »
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Offline 70chall440

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2019 - 09:53:34 PM »
You are most welcome and feel free to post any questions or ideas you might have. One thing you will find out or are finding out is that many of these tasks are so much easier with the right equipment. As it relates to welding, its mostly about the power but also about the shielding gas flow and the ground. I am not sure what size wire you are using, but I prefer .023 for sheet metal. I know some people prefer .035 but IMO it leaves too much to grind off.

something that might also help you is to used something like this

https://www.ebay.com/p/VIM-Products-MPWT-Magnetic-Plug-Weld-Tool/1623776290?iid=202262477076&chn=ps

There are copper plates that have magnets embedded into them but I find that they don't work all that well. The item I listed the link to holds well but you have to move it around a lot. You could try the plates behind the welds and use another magnet to hold in place. The point here is that the copper plate draws some of the heat out of the weld/panel plus weld will not stick to it so if the wire goes through it has something to hit. Because the plate takes some of the heat, you tend not to burn through as much. Lastly, it gives you a decent weld or seam on the back side (side against the plate).

There are lots of these types of things for sale online and you can even make some if you like. Search around the internet before you buy, the item I posted the link to is sold by Eastwood for $45 and its on Ebay for $25.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline larry4406

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2019 - 05:57:54 AM »
No expert on metal fab or finishing but I am following along on your thread.  I need to do similar on my 71 barracuda vert quarter.  In the late 80's when metal was not available I had a "resto shop" fix mine and they flange repaired the quarter using a donor and unbeknowst to me, the trunk extension was rotted out so they just welded the remnant to the quarter!

I frequent another forum, Garage Journal.  There are some really excellent threads there on autobody metal fab and finishing.  Here are a two that I have found most informative.  Not sure, but you may need to join to see the pictures (worth it!).
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182565

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53534

Offline 70chall440

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2019 - 11:55:29 AM »
garage journal is a good site. Flanging works really well except that you will have a visible flange on the inside of the trunk which I am assuming you don't want. 
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2019 - 07:40:02 AM »
Thank you all for the tips; very helpful
Reviewed the Garage Journal info. Great website and welding discussion. I added it to my sites.
The welder I picked up is a Hobart Handler 140 Flux-Core/Mig, 115 vols.140 amps from Northern Tools.(Do not have a 220 circuit) Thought is was a good deal at     $489. Planning on an 80/20 mix.
I also picked up a Miller dvd on welding. Going to practice on some scrap metal first.  Your advice is spot on. Everything I read; weld in different locations at the circumference rather then trying to bead weld.  I also prefer to butt weld rather then create a lip flange (another place for water to collect and rust)
The left side trunk extension was in good condition except for a small section at the bottom.  I already cut a patch that fits well.  I was contemplating welding the patch from the outside prior to welding in the bottom quarter panel patch.  You would not see the weld once the outer qtr patch was put in.  Kind of looking at the sequence of welding tasks.  The right side trunk extension was shot; replacing that unit as a whole.  And again a rt side quarter panel patch at the bottom of the quarter.

1970 Challenger A66 Registry

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2019 - 07:49:36 AM »
Using AMD panels in cutting the patches.  Ordered AMD and "other" cheaper panels to compare.  AMD had better contours and correct edge flanges where appropriate.
I use the cut out panel to create the new patch.  I make a cardboard template from the cutout and use it against the patch panel to cut accurately.  Seems to work. 
1970 Challenger A66 Registry

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2019 - 07:54:08 AM »
The right side qtr panel was "repaired" in the 70's before I got the car in 1979. Looks like they brass "brazed" a patch onto the quarter back then. Amazing that a 9 year old car would need a repair. 
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Offline 70chall440

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2019 - 11:16:34 AM »
Bad drivers have been around since cars were invented..
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2019 - 11:18:24 AM »
Clean up
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Offline 70chall440

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2019 - 11:58:05 AM »
Nice.  :bigsmile:
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2019 - 08:32:45 PM »
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Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2019 - 11:50:07 AM »
Dirty job by hand, but cleaning underside of floor.
You can still see the factory grey primer and some Y1 over spray!  :working:

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019 - 11:51:42 AM by 340challconvert »
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Offline 70chall440

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2019 - 11:52:25 PM »
Very clean!
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2019 - 07:13:00 PM »
Trial fitting the trunk floor (AMD two piece)
Had to see what the Challenger looked like with a trunk again
1970 Challenger A66 Registry

Offline 340challconvert

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Re: A66 Challenger Vert Restoration
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2019 - 07:14:23 PM »
Seems to fit the adjacent panels well :working:
1970 Challenger A66 Registry