ignition tuneup - need advise

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    Author Topic: ignition tuneup - need advise  (Read 2886 times)

    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #15 on: December 08, 2018 - 08:56:37 PM »
    Yes sorry, the engine started that is it turned over starter being very strong but never fired.
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    Offline 70chall440

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #16 on: December 08, 2018 - 09:53:41 PM »
    Ok, I would say a contact was corroded and when you got it fired it lost contact. Make sure you clean ALL contacts well. This includes but is not limited to the connections on the ballast resistor, coil, battery, etc. One of the best things you can do is locate and clean every ground you can find (not that many; radiator support left side, battery, engine and one on the firewall). This is one of the biggest issues with these cars, bad grounds. I personally recommend you add some (engine to frame, engine to firewall, dash frame to firewall and instrument cluster to dash frame).
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    Current Mopar
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    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018 - 01:39:34 PM »
    OK quick question but I feel the answer may not be.  Looking at my ECU module, again this is a 73 Cuda 340. The module is a 4 pin device yet my ballast resistor is 4 terminals. Looking at the schematics it would appear that I need the 5 pin version of the module. Any ideas??
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    Offline 70chall440

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #18 on: December 19, 2018 - 10:39:00 AM »
    There are a lot of opinions on the 5 pin v a 4 pin. I have always understood that you can use a 4 or 5 pin on a system designed for a 5 pin, however you cannot go the way. If in doubt, get a 5 pin.

    Take a look at this thread

    http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/5010479/site_id/1
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    Current Mopar
    70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
    05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
    Past Mopars
    9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #19 on: December 20, 2018 - 10:41:17 AM »
    OK thanks again for all the responses - keep them coming I'm not out of the woods yet.
    Here is what I replaced:1. Gap and replaced each new spark plug2. changed out rotor and dist cap3. Changed out coil4. Changed out Resistor5. Changed out ECU - 4 pin which replaced a 4 pin ECU

    All parts came from NAPA
    Here is what I checked.1. Ohm'd out ground with respect to the radiator, firewall, and engine block ground readings all seem very good. Spray with a de-oxide to improve it.2. Ohm'd out resistor and all connections to the spark plug wires to dist. Resistor is in spec, spark plug wires are between 11K to 13K ohms. Also wire to coil.
    3. Ohm'd out ECU plug to the varies points on coil and resistor and pickup coil. Each had good connection .4. With ignition on, check the ECU plug for voltage on 1,2 and 3. all within a volt of the battery5. Pick coil resistance is 257 ohms  (4/5 on the plug) a bit low but it's 32 degrees in the garage.

    Notes:Each time I go out I have a battery charger on the battery so when I start the engine the battery is fully charged. BTW there are some good articles on the internet.  There is a 1973 ignition bulletin which is very helpful. There are articles from Popular Mech on how to diagnose the ignition are very good. So now I'm wondering if the pickup unit is working correctly. I also have never confirmed the spark so I think I'm going to purchase a light that goes between the spark plug and wire so I can see it. I would feel better knowing that this is the problem.  A bit frustrated but hopeful.  Again all comments are welcome!




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    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #20 on: December 24, 2018 - 01:23:06 PM »
    Wondering if there is a way to prove that the ignition switch is not the problem or the problem.  It seems to me right now that it's either the pickup coil gap or the whole mechanism or the ignition switch.  Thanks!
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    Offline 70chall440

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #21 on: December 26, 2018 - 12:31:49 AM »
    Well you can essentially hotwire it to determine if the switch is the problem.
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    Current Mopar
    70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
    05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
    Past Mopars
    9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #22 on: December 26, 2018 - 06:23:48 PM »
    So looking at the wiring diagram my thinking is put on the Em. brakes, take out of gear and put the ignition to the run position.  That being done jumper the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the coil to see if this starts the car.  Is this correct? Thanks!!
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    Offline 70chall440

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #23 on: December 27, 2018 - 12:30:33 AM »
    Why not just just the starter rely?
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    Current Mopar
    70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
    05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
    Past Mopars
    9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #24 on: December 27, 2018 - 02:33:21 PM »
    OK thank you for the comment but something new has been added to the formula.  The car STARTED and sounded great, it's like I never had an issue.  Here is what I did before starting it.  I didn't read your comment on the starter relay earlier so I put the key in the run position and jumpered the positive coil to the positive of the battery expecting the car to turn over... nothing happen the engine did not crank what did I do wrong!!!!!! Next I poked around making sure none of the connections are loose and out of curiosity I just tried to start it to see if it would crank and it started right up.
    The good news is that changing all the ignition components the engine still runs so I didn't muck up anything also I THINK I can dismiss the air gap between the reluctor and pickup coil. Would this be a good assumption??  The bad news is wiring??? with respect to maybe temperature - don't know.  Should I change out the starter relay to eliminate that component??? The ground is very good about 0.6 ohms but will check again at the various points.  Maybe I'll look at the firewall connections. 

    So the other thing maybe this will happen again when the temperature drops this will be easy to prove out within a day - HA.  Any tricks or test to perform to narrow down the problem is certainly welcome. Thanks so much reading!! XMAS
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    Offline 70chall440

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #25 on: December 28, 2018 - 12:11:17 AM »
    I do not believe that adding a lead from the battery to the positive side of the coil will not make the car start as it does not energize the starting system only the ignition system. To get the starter to turn, you have to give it power (which is what the relay does). Normally you jump the relay to remotely start the car (or turn it over). this system can be used to help to diagnose things but it also will mask a problem with the ignition switch (meaning that the starter may turn by jumping the relay and not by the key).

    I would not worry too much about the air gap in the distributor, unless you have messed with it. I think you are over thinking this a bit, these are pretty simple systems. I suspect that the car started and ran well because you have installed new components and have been checking everything. You would be surprised how much difference a slight movement of a key connector can have. They get corroded and sometimes a slight movement will return contact. Believe, many Mopar guys have chased these demons for a long time, in some cases have never figured out what went wrong in the first place because the vehicle suddenly begins working correctly.

    You need to disconnect the bulk head connectors (specifically the engine harness) and clean the contacts; I use a normal #2 pencil to scratch the connectors. This works well for the male connectors (blades), the female side is harder to get clean, Id recommend a small pick or something to try and get a good connection. Don't worry too much about it but do what you can.
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    Current Mopar
    70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
    05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
    Past Mopars
    9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #26 on: December 28, 2018 - 12:45:58 PM »
    As always thank you for your knowledgeable advise.  Last night went over the starter relay and I would agree with your statement.  I'm learning as I go here. 


    Yes so will focus on the bulkhead connectors and do my best to clean all, this was always in the back of my head and knew from other experiences with connectors that this is one of the weakest link as the years climb. I'm still in aw of it starting with all the crap I did.  Thank you very much! 


    PS: Boy was it nice taking her out on the road, it had been at least 3 weeks. I'm sure you know the feeling going thur the gears :bigsmile:
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    Offline Cudakiller70

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #27 on: December 28, 2018 - 02:36:07 PM »
    Something to think about next, if you haven’t done this already? Is amp meter bypass. Do a search, more than one way to do this. Save your car from electrical melt down. Good job on changing parts out!
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    Offline CudaJon

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #28 on: December 28, 2018 - 03:53:49 PM »
    Thank you for your comment on the amp meter. I must say I have grown fond of the ammeter. I had to change out the tack last year and made sure the wiring looked decent going to that meter.  But I understand the damage, I do have a disconnect on the ground terminal which is always disconnected while not in use and I have a fire extinguisher in the back seat.  If I'm going to do anything I most likely will make a direct connection to and from the meter with no connections in between the firewall. Thank you it's something to think about while I'm in there!
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    Offline 70chall440

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    Re: ignition tuneup - need advise
    « Reply #29 on: December 28, 2018 - 11:54:48 PM »
    Quote from: CudaJon on December 28, 2018 - 12:45:58 PM
    As always thank you for your knowledgeable advise.  Last night went over the starter relay and I would agree with your statement.  I'm learning as I go here. 


    Yes so will focus on the bulkhead connectors and do my best to clean all, this was always in the back of my head and knew from other experiences with connectors that this is one of the weakest link as the years climb. I'm still in aw of it starting with all the crap I did.  Thank you very much! 


    PS: Boy was it nice taking her out on the road, it had been at least 3 weeks. I'm sure you know the feeling going thur the gears :bigsmile:

    One thing to keep in mind is that these cars are not that complicated and it is demonstrated daily that they will work, the key is the maintenance and understanding the subsystems and how they all relate to one another. Knowledge will come with experience and this site is a great source of information, motivation and support. I would recommend starting a thread in the "restorations" section, post some pictures and ask all the questions you want. The pictures will help members give you accurate advise and may get members to identify issues you may not you even have.

    Yes I know the feeling all too well. I have to be honest and tell you that for me its the building of the vehicles that really excites me. I have a 2010 Challenger RT and a 01 Viper GTS ACR so the driving experience is a bit different, that said driving my 70 Challenger RT does take me back to the late 70's in my late teens terrorizing the streets.
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    Current Mopar
    70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
    05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
    Past Mopars
    9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)
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