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[oldschoolbutcool]

Hello I am from Germany and fairly new to this forum. My question is especially for the american users of this site. But while posting here I happened to see the confederate flag in the emotes.(this one for the ones who dont know it:  ) For my unterstanding it was the flag of those in the civil war, that wanted to keep having slaves. So to my knowlege it still stands for slavery and rassist standpoint. So my question is: Is that a thing in this forum (I mean do a lot or some of you hold rassist opinions?) Not trying to offend, just curious 

[dodgedream]

To be upfront I am from the south and while I do not agree with slavery I will try to explain what I have seen.the people that use the flag (in my experience ) are seeing the civil war as a war about states rights and are seeing the slavery issue as a side issue. These people I am familiar with are using the flag as an image of southern pride as people from other locations and values move in and begin altering the geopolitical climate of the places these people were raised in and will probably live their entire lives in and die in. So basically it becomes a banner of regionalism.  Hope this helps and others might have different experiences. Not judging so please no vitriol from opposing experiences

[jimynick]

I think you'll find that most of those who like to call the Stars and Bars racist, are residents of the area that fought in what was, and still is, known in the South, as the War of Northern Aggression. I'm Canadian, so I don't have a dog in this race, as the southern folks might say. I think that most of the reason for the continuing use of the Stars and Bars, is to say "F-ck you" to the Yankees and/or those who like to pee on the South's boots, if that's not too obscure an expression for you. As mentioned, the main cause of the Civil War was states rights and their objection to being told what they could or could not do by the "carpetbaggers" from the north. LOL Try to envision what happened to Germany with the Russians taking over 1/2 your country and your feelings about that. We won't even go to a mention of fascism versus racism. Verstehen? 

[oldschoolbutcool]

Thanks for your answers guys, that really clears things up a bit for me  maybe it is just that slavery is such a big issue even if it is just a side issue, that people mostly remember that. I am really not one to run around pointng fingers and screaming rassist, cause i dont think it helps either side.
The russians didnt take over half of our country, administration was split four ways and even than power was given back to germans pretty fast. And I would say they had some good reasons to do that, germans brought that one onto themselves I would say. I dont know much about american history. But to you guys think that sometimes it is justified to take away freedom (maybe even with voilence) when its for the greater good? (like objective truths like: slavery is bad, rassism is bad, terrorism is bad etc.)

[dodgedream]

your question about taking away freedoms is a VERY sensitive subject here in the USA. As the country was founded on individual freedoms the more conservative ( read rural) do not want to give up individual freedoms while the more liberal (read urban)  don't really see the loss as important because it is not something close to their hearts.just look at our last election and the voting results by county to see what i mean

[Cudaragtop]

There are people here in the USA and around the world that find this Flag and what it stands for deeply offensive...

You won't see me burning or stomping on it to prove I'm a better person than people I have nothing in common with.

[jimynick]

"There are people here in the USA and around the world that find this Flag and what it stands for deeply offensive..."- Man, I'm not even American, but if the Stars and Stripes and what it stands for annoys you, feel free to piss off to whatever alternative that you think is better. That old bumper sticker still has meaning- "America, love it or leave it" and, for what it's worth, I feel the same about my home, Canada! If you don't like it here. why the Christ did you come in the first place and don't let the door knob hit you in the arse on the way out, eh?! 

[Cudaragtop]

"There are people here in the USA and around the world that find this Flag and what it stands for deeply offensive..."- Man, I'm not even American, but if the Stars and Stripes and what it stands for annoys you, feel free to piss off to whatever alternative that you think is better. That old bumper sticker still has meaning- "America, love it or leave it" and, for what it's worth, I feel the same about my home, Canada! If you don't like it here. why the Christ did you come in the first place and don't let the door knob hit you in the arse on the way out, eh?! 

Maybe should read that again before you go suggesting I go elsewhere or wagging your finger at me...
It is written in English. Have a nice day Eh.

"There are people here in the USA and around the world that find this Flag and what it stands for deeply offensive...
You won't see me burning or stomping on it to prove I'm a better person than people I have nothing in common with."

 

[jimynick]

Maybe should read that again before you go suggesting I go elsewhere or wagging your finger at me...
It is written in English. Have a nice day Eh.

"There are people here in the USA and around the world that find this Flag and what it stands for deeply offensive...
You won't see me burning or stomping on it to prove I'm a better person than people I have nothing in common with."

 

Perhaps you should read my response again. It wasn't directed at you, but rather those who, as YOU said, find the mere sight of YOUR flag so offensive.  I for one, do not find the sight of an American flag to be offensive and I was not wagging my finger at anyone except those who do, so where do YOU fit in to that description? Eh?

[Cudaragtop]

Sorry, my bad... 

I love my country, I love my flag, I love my Canadian friends and family. Poutine for everyone!
And I agree completely with your sentiment.

I was just confused by all the times you said "You"...
Just to be clear, when I said you just now I meant you (The first you) not them (The second you).      

Live long and prosper. God save the Queen. Long Live the Republic...

    

Believe it or not, for the longest time I thought the first 2 letters in this sign were OB not DR     so it's no surprise I was screwed up...

[oldschoolbutcool]

"America, love it or leave it" I dont know if it is that easy. I mean especially if you find the first flag I asked about offencive. And even with what you guy told me in mind I think that that flag may be offencive for a lot of people in the USA (that have ancestors that where slaves for example), because that part of history and the civil war is still a part of the whole story. You can love a country even if you dispise some of the history of this country (i am german I am familiar with that concept). But also in general i think "love it or leave it" is a bit naive, cause it shuts all sorts of (valid) critism down and makes chance for the better way harder. I mean there wouldnt be gay rights in the country of the free, if it wasnt for protests. 

[jimynick]

"Believe it or not, for the longest time I thought the first 2 letters in this sign were OB not DR     so it's no surprise I was screwed up..." LOL, all good brother, all good, and for what it's worth, I have the same feeling about that sign, too! As for our German friend, I'll just say that loving something doesn't always mean unconditionally and you are right in that countries do make mistakes ( as you mention- Hitler et al) , but having said that, do you not love your own fatherland, Deutschland, swastika bedamned? Prosit!