How do you guys feel about clones?

[1 Wild R/T]

That's it! "Power in the pines".

It only ran for three years? I was there in '85 and '86 but I didn't make the '87 meet as I moved out of California for Florida in the spring of '87. I just assumed it continued on for years and years.

The swap meet was great too. Sold off a lot of stuff there. I had a pair of E-body convertible rear interior side panels (white) that I sold for like $50 or $60 for the pair and I thought that I made a killing!!


Was also the place that I saw my first 'Cuda with a bench seat and column shift automatic. Up until then I didn't know you could get a Cuda with a bench seat. Oh and get this, of all things it was a '71 HemiCuda and it was black with white billboards. 

I bought a set of white convertible panels there... For $50.. They are in my car in the garage...    BTW Did I say Thank You??

Oh, And....  Just to add to the story, the Black & White Hemicuda was originally ordered by an Oakland CHP Officer.... The White roof is painted (V02) not a vinyl top...

[RzeroB]

I bought a set of white convertible panels there... For $50.. They are in my car in the garage...    BTW Did I say Thank You??

GET OUT! You got to be kidding right? That was like 27-28 years ago and here we are today talking about it. That's crazy ... and very cool!

Funny but I I just recently made a post about how I acquired those panels (among other things) in this thread here http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=96965.msg968038#msg968038

Oh, And....  Just to add to the story, the Black & White Hemicuda was originally ordered by an Oakland CHP Officer.... The White roof is painted (V02) not a vinyl top...

And how cool is it that I mention the black n white '71 HemiCuda with the bench seat column shift auto and ... "voila!" it suddenly appears in your post! That's the car that I was talking about alright! Didn't remember it having a V02 painted roof but I do remember the owner asking me to back away because I was drooling on his perfectly spotless TX9 black paint!
Thanks for the pic to remind me just how much of a beauty that particular HemiCuda was (is)! Wonder where that beauty is today? Is it yours?

[1 Wild R/T]

First completely serious about the panels, white, Challenger panels, the grain was flaking.. I seem to recall your spot was in the middle parking lot about mid way through... I had a line on a 70 R/T vert 440-6 4 spd (One of the Promo Red/White cars), as it turned out the guy kept dangling the car then wouldn't sell it... Finally it did sell but not to me.. The guy that bought it had it in Hemmings the next month for 6 times what he paid...

I wound up storing those panels about 9 years before my current Challenger R/T vert came along, Had Just Dashes do their job on them & been using them for 19 years... Wish I had a perfect set but hey, I drive my car & they work just fine...  Thanks again!!

Funny, my buddy got asked to stay back from the Black Hemicuda too...  Do I own it.. Yeah, I wish... No but a buddy did wind up buying it though, he owned it for a few years then the market went nuts & he decided to let someone finance his retirement account...

[Topcat]

Power In The Pines...  Held at Kirkwood Ski Resort....  I was at all three of the shows 85, 86 & 87, Awesome location for a car show... Wish it had continued...
Amongst all the other cool stuff the swap meet was amazing.. First time I saw a Sixpack manifold,carbs & air cleaner sell for big money.. $500... I'd bought three prior to that & never paid more than $100....

I was there at the 87' show.

It was the best Mopar atmosphere show I ever saw.
Great show it was. 

[1 Wild R/T]

I thought the show was great, the swap was excellent but what I enjoyed most was the drive & seeing 15-20 brightly colored Mopars all going down the mountain roads together...

[Topcat]

I thought the show was great, the swap was excellent but what I enjoyed most was the drive & seeing 15-20 brightly colored Mopars all going down the mountain roads together...

Yup,

Good days back then.    

Young, carefree, Let's go, Party, See cool cars!
I was a Mopar car show hound back in them days.

[1 Wild R/T]

Well I rarely do car shows anymore but I do organize cruises with as many old cars as I can convince to come along... Sometimes we get 5-6 & sometimes we get 30+

BTW I guess I've kinda steered this thread off topic & I apologize... So  to steer it back on topic...  I like Clones!! More guys are willing to drive a clone than what have unfortunately become "Investments" Currently I don't own any clones but I have & from the drivers seat it felt just like the real thing.... From the outside it looked just like the real thing... Only way it was different was a couple numbers/letters on a plate... Screw the numbers! Drive it!!  I've owned original Hemicars, Sixpacks, A T/A.. They all had one thing in common.. If they run they get driven....

[CudamanTom]

I like Clones!! More guys are willing to drive a clone than what have unfortunately become "Investments" Currently I don't own any clones but I have & from the drivers seat it felt just like the real thing.... From the outside it looked just like the real thing... Only way it was different was a couple numbers/letters on a plate... Screw the numbers! Drive it!!  I've owned original Hemicars, Sixpacks, A T/A.. They all had one thing in common.. If they run they get driven....

I own a clone and proud of it. When finished, it will be a driver and don't care about numbers.

[Super Blue 72]

I own a clone and proud of it. When finished, it will be a driver and don't care about numbers.

  x 2!

You can drive it, have fun with it and not worry so much if something happens to it.  Definitely would be cool to have a rare matching numbers car and stuff but with a clone, you can make it the way you want and be creative with it.   

I have a friend that recently got what was a 318 powered 1970 Charger.  He can do what he wants with it.  It has a 440 in it now.  The R/T cars then had the scoops on the doors but he never liked those scoops so no biggie if he doesn't put them on but adds R/T badges or what ever he wants.

[AARuFAST]

I changed my outlook on clones.
The original owner probably didn't want to spend the extra money back in the days for more options and power.
So, now we have more money than back in the days. An the new owners of there classics are adding the options and
changing the cars look to their personal taste.
Mopars need to catch up to the other classics, muscle cars.
If it is not an all original go for a clone....enjoy life...........
We purchased our AAR in 1985 it was Dark Ivy Green and in 1986 changed it to Moulon Rouge.
My personal taste..........24 years ago.

[JoeGrapes]

I'm late to this thread also. When I bought my car back in '96 I just wanted to have fun with it. I had no thought of any originality or even turning it into a show car. In fact I bought two cars off the guy as a package deal. A '70 383 Gran Coupe and a '74 318 Barracuda. Neither one was complete. I built one car out of them both. And since I wanted to use the big block in the car I used all the parts of the Gran Coupe. When I started going to local car shows you were put in a class. A bodies, B bodies, E bodies, Mustangs, Cameros and  so on. You were competing with other cars just like yours. I did well and won many first place awards. People did ask me if the car was original and I told them "well, all the parts were originally some car",lol. I made a lot of changes since then. I just didn't like being backed into a corner with a restored to original car where you need to keep it that way. My car was not a high option original car anyway so it didn't bother me to change it. I don't do may car shows anymore because they are different now. You get put into a class of say "60 muscle cars" where you compete with Mustangs and Camaros. It's like what's better and apple or an orange.  So now I just do what I want to a car and have fun with it. The cost of all original cars is just out of sight so if some one wants to get in to the hobby a plain jane model is the way to go. It doesn't matter what other people think. As for me, I will NEVER criticize anyone's hard work on their pride and joy.   

[GreenFishie]

I have to echo most everyone in this thread ... nothing wrong with a clone. It's your car, so do what makes you happy. There's only an issue when you try to pass the clone off as what you're cloning.

True story. My wife bought her cousins 2k Grand Marquis in 2k2 with 1200 miles on it for cheap. I mean she paid her cousin a dollar a mile for it. From 02 to 07 there were just over 200k miles put on it when it developed the oddist head gasket leak ... and I had wanted a Marauder when they were reintroduced. So instead of trading in the gold lady we just used what we saved with her and bought an 08 Yaris and leased a g-d awful Chrysler mini-van. Still drive the Yaris and my commuter car, the wife drives a 13 Yaris. Kids drive the 08 when I don't.

Anyway, instead of junking the old gold lady I decided to clone, and then some, a Marauder. It was a purely cosmetic clone. I went with a 4.6L modular DOHC ... except with a supercharger. I avoided the AOD tranny and went with 5r55s C3 tranny. Upgraded most of the suspension beyond what the Marauder was equipped with ... and in the end the only cloning that was done happened with the front seats, console, front fenders, filler and nose as well as the rear skirt ... and wheels. Didn't say Marauder anywhere on the car. In fact I kept her gold and just had the original badging refinished and she still said GrandMa ... she just looked like a Marauder ... and damn I miss her.

I listed her two years ago and she ended up going for 17 so I put a total of 20 into her if you include the original purchase price and drove her for over a decade at a total cost of 3k.

I tell you some of the responses I got from the listing were just downright hostile. I listed her as a 2k Grand Marquis modified to look like Marauder and run like pony ... and specifically stated that it was not a Marauder, but damn ... I got threats of legal action from a couple of guys in TX, the promise of an ass beating from some clown in Jersey and a verbal lashing from some guy who came to look at the car.

Apparently cloning a revival Marauder is a cardinal sin in some circles. It isn't even a classic, just a curious collectible that doesn't really depart much from Grandmas of the same generation.

[Mopar Mitch]

I've cloned my Chally into a T/A for one basice reason:  The club rules of the SCCA (Solo/autocross, and other related clubs for same race events) allow it, and, so, in order to be competitive within the race class, I had to have such mods, and then more beyond the factory specs.  I bought my 72 Chally 318 Rally from the original owner in June 1975 (still in college then), and soon got hooked on SCCA autocrossing, then studied the rules, etc.. and made the decision... my car was/is all rust free, etc... changed the grille, tailights, side lights, got a T/A hood and trunk lid, spoilers, etc.   Back then (mid-late 70s), T/As and AARs were commonly stripping for parts, as well as NOS was still available.  My best friend owns a body shop, he's a Mopar die-hard, and so.. took a few months to transform the body... I already had a cpl T/a engines, and other parts... .   SO.. since the completion in 1978, I've campaigned my T/A in hundreds of SCCA and related autocross events -- class-LEGAL!... and have WON many season regional championships, as well as various car show awards.

I remember one "purist" at an all-Mopar show (Nats?) looking over my car, scratching his head, and questioned "Why did I modify it?"   Answer:  Because I'm keeping up YOUR image of what a hi-performance T/A is all about -- ACTION and RACING!...  AND... How many Fords and Chevies have YOU beaten lately?... I've beaten hundreds of them and have awards to prove it.

If/whenever I'd sell the car, it'll be advertised as a T/A representative.. not a factory model.   I cloned before "Cloning" was ever such an issue.   As Mopar Action August 2006 issue closed the article on my car:  "Mitch's T/A didn't leave the factory with the stripes, but it has more than earned them!"

[michaelphbarnett]

I realize that this thread has been idle for a while, but I'm new to the board and wanted to put my .02 cents worth in on the subject so I'm reviving it.

In the summer of '85 there was a good sized Mopar car show and swap meet at the Shelby facillity (he was with Dodge then) in Santa Fe Springs CA (Los Angles area). I left my '70 HemiCuda at home and went there with the truck as I had a lot of parts I wanted to deal at the swap meet. While there a gleaming Rallye Red '71 HemiCuda convertible with black top, black interior, black billboards and a Coca-cola front license plate (don't know why I recall the plate?) came rumbling in as part of the show. I was in awe as I had never seen one of the "holy grail" '71 HemiCuda convertibles in person before. Once he got settled in I sauntered over there to check it out. As I'm admiring his car and gushing about how awesome it was to finally see one of the real '71 HemiCuda convertibles in person he chuckles and tells me that it isn' t a "real" one. "Excuse me?" I say. He then tells me that it is a "clone" (or something to that effect) and that he built it into a HemiCuda from a lesser convertible (383 I think?). "Oh? So it's a fake?" I say with a hint of distain in my voice and then went back to my parts display.

It was an absolutely beautiful car in every detail. However, because it wasn't "real" I acted like a snob and snub him. What a jackass I was! I was a "purist" back then and believed that Mopars were what they left the factory as and nothing more. Modify them all you want but you couldn't turn a 318 Challenger into a 340 RT or a 383 Cuda convertible into a HemiCuda convertible. In the mid-80's there were still a lot of original cars around and they didn't cost a second mortgage to buy. If you wanted a particular car you sought it out and bought it - you didn't "build" it. "Clones", "tributes", "recreations" or whatever you want to refer to them as, were relatively new at the time, and I think that '71 HemiCuda convertible was the first one I ran into.

Things are different now. Through attrition the original cars have become scarce and the rule of supply and demand makes it so that they cost a bundle when you find one. And then there is the historical significance of some of these cars - they're just too rare and valuable to make into anything other than museum pieces. Enter the "clone". If you didn't get it back when it was affordable, or if you are not wealthy enough to get it now all you have to do is "clone" it. It took them a while but the aftermarket body parts business has finally caught up with those for the Mustang and Camaro where you can now get whatever you need to make whatever you want.

I agree with many of the inputs on this thread. "Cloning" is good for the hobby for there just were not enough of the original cars made for everyone to have what they would really like. "Cloning" is good for the aftermarket parts business - demand drives the business and if nobody was cloning most of these parts simply wouldn't be available. "Cloning" is good for me. I had an original HemiCuda for four great years back in the '80's but I had to let it go. I simply could not afford to buy one now. However, if I really wanted one, I could probably stretch for a nice "clone" of one.

Lastly I just wanted to say that I might have been an anti-clone jackass back in the '80's but I'm all on board now. And if you happen to be that guy who had that beautiful '71 HemiCuda convertible "clone" at the Shelby meet in '85 I apologize for my rudeness and commend you for being a "cloning" pioneer.

I think the car you are talking about at that time belonged to Randy Gerstenburg.

[Topcat]

I think the car you are talking about at that time belonged to Randy Gerstenburg.

That's it alright.
Thanks for the picture.

I remember it very well.
It was the first time I had ever seen the front spoilers on a Cuda'.