Author Topic: Is this a decent deal? (Read 2409 times)

DeadStang · « **on:** October 23, 2005 - 04:01:28 PM »

Hope I'm not writing this in the wrong place...Have a what's it worth question about a car I got to look at but not drive at a swap meet a couple of weeks ago.

It's a '73 Challenger 340/AT floor shift with console car that now has a '70 340 engine w/a 6 pack. Allegedly has NO rust, has been repainted from bronze (burnt orange?) to white with some black stripes that have the words "six pack" also written in them. There is flat grey paint on the outside of the tailligh tpanel--don't know why, but it's not primer and is in a definite pattern. The car is straight and looks very good. The engine is allegedly rebuilt w/zero miles (I'm always a little suspicious of that--why not put some miles on the car unless there are hidden "issues?") and does sound very good, although the vacuum advance for the distributor isn't hooked up and he says the distributor needs to be recurved. Make you wonder what else is not done or needs monkeying with.

The interior is white, but not done totally correctly as some panels are black that should be white, although it looks fine. The texture on the tops of the inner door panels has been sanded flat, which is a bummer but not really noticable. Some of the weatherstripping around the doors could still use replacement, though.

The guy went crazy with the textured paint in the trunk and supposedly used professionaly undercoating on the floorpans, inner fenders, etc, which bugs me a bit as I know from vintage Mustangs, undercoating sure hides a lot of rust issues. If it were a Mustang, I probably wouldn't look beyond all of this overcoating stuff everywhere and just walk away as I'm mostly into stock. But I crawled around as far underneath as I could go with the car on the ground and can't find any rust isses or evidence of floorpan replacement, and the trunk also seems to be fine. The rear window looks good at the bottom seams. The only iffy spot I could find was on the passenger side, there is this frame-rail kind of thing that runs from the shock toward (and slants down to) the firewall--just on the top of that, it wasn't exactly symmetrical to the left side as if a little rust might be bubbling there but it was hard to see.

You can probably tell that I'm a total Mopar kind of a person newbie, as I have been into old Mustangs thus far and am basically clueless about these cars. But I'd like to kind of shift my focus a bit and this car really caught my eye! The guy has owned the car since 1987. He took a severance from his regular job and is now trying to restore old cars for a living. He was planning on keeping this one, but now has it for sale with the 0 miles, which also kind of bugs me, but at least he didn't just buy the car 6 months ago and throw together a bunch of work to sell it. He wants $21,500. I don't want or need yet another project car--am looking for something "done" (a four-speed would be ideal!), and this seems like a good driver-type car. What do you guys think?

stwheels · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2005 - 05:26:05 PM »

That sounds outrageous for a 73 340 car! For that price it should be near perfect with tons of pictures showing everything that was done to the car to get it in the condition it's in. He should have had all the bills for any machine work, parts purchases and the like on display to prove what he was telling you.

Everything about the car sends up red flags. 0 miles on it, the texture paint in the trunk, the interior not finished properly. The poor door panels, needing weatherstrip, the tail panel sprayed the wrong color all point to deeper problems that were covered over.

Did he give you any proof of the length of time he's owned the car?

The fact you felt the need to ask if the car was worth buying shows your insticts are working just fine. People should follow their inner feelings about stuff like this more often, and remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question!

This board is a great place to learn what to look for when buying an E-body. Good Luck in your search.

Doug Lepak
The Steering Wheel Guy
web site: http://members.shaw.ca/stwheels/index.htm
Specializing in MOPAR wood grain steering wheels

js27 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2005 - 05:52:00 PM »

I have to agree, The price is way out of line for what you described. I say 12,500 is more realistic.
I also tend to think of undercoating as a cover up. You never know what is lurking under there !!!
JS27

DeadStang · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2005 - 06:13:09 PM »

Thanks! No, the guy did have a few pictures of the car in primer and a couple of the car when he bought it, but no proof of how long he had owned it. Supposedly, the pictures of the restoration are all on 35mm film that hasn't been developed, which is kind of plausible as I also have some rolls of film sitting around that hasn't been developed yet, either. I am probably making the car sound worse than it is as I've pointed out the only the flaws and things that I am bothered by. Taking it at face value, if the car truely is completely rust-free, and the engine is newly rebiult by a reputable machine shop, etc, etc, it's straight and nice with good paint...how much is it worth?

He was a literally fast talker who laughed a lot--nothing wrong with that, but not the type that I'm that comfortable with in buying a car. He had no receipts for engine work, etc, with him, but I guess had them all at home (6 hours away from the swap meet). Like I said, if all of that coating material was on a Mustang, I would run, partly because it's just ugly but also for the hiding factor, but I have been assured that it's common to lay that crap down in the trunks and such of Chevys and custom rods. If the factory would've undercoated our vintage rides back when they were made, many, many more would likely still exist today. So I thought, for a driver car, having some protection would be an OK thing...

I just like the looks of these cars and rust-free, driver quality cars seem to be scarce in my neck of the woods (western Oregon). So I saw this one and got kind of excited, but for $21,500, I can buy a very, very nice fastback Mustang and I know the market there, so I thought I'd ask some experts!

JS27N0B · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2005 - 07:28:57 PM »

Sounds to me like all the advice given is right on track and so are your instincts.

Rev-It-Up · « **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2005 - 07:58:53 PM »

Deadstang...welcome to the board first off! That is just way too much money for a 73. If it were a 70, maybe. Have you looked down in the For Sale section. Two cars come to mind for that kind of money....Bart's 70 cuda and Lumpys' 70 Challenger RT/SE Here's the links...

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=13208.0
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=13301.0

Both of these cars are beautiful and are the years that demand that kind of cash...the later models haven't reached that high dollar status yet.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2005 - 08:00:16 PM »

I agree, both Members mentioned above have lovely rides.

Super Blue 72 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2005 - 10:21:56 PM »

I would definately not go for that car at that price.

The lack of originality has already shot it down from where a good conditioned stock car is at pricewise.

It isn't drivable, interior is different colors, what else is wrong with the engine, hows the 6 pack set up? Can't even drive it to test it out.

Sure, it might have a solid body and it might make a good car but it definately needs work and for a 1973 Challenger at that price it should be a Rallye with #s matching enigne maybe, car all stock and original.

Got any pictures?

My best guess is $10-$12K. I would shop around more to get a flavor of the pricing out there. Just my 2 cents.

MoparMan · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2005 - 10:47:57 PM »

DeadStang,

Welcome to the board!
I also agree with the advice that's been offered so far. With number of wrong parts and procedures on this '73, that's just way too much money. There are better cars out there for less or equal money.

If you'd run away from this kind of Mustang deal, run from this one..

Hope you find a good car soon,
MoparMan
(Bob)

DeadStang · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2005 - 11:48:19 PM »

This is his story about the car:

"I bought this 1973 Challenger Ralley on 10-1987. I
drove it home and immediately started taking it apart
knowing and saying I would never drive it until it was
completed. I kept that oath.
I only ran the car to keep the motor fresh and move
it around.
Until this year I always took the distributor out and
primed the oil system before every start. Its 3rd oil
change has just been done.
With life in general, 4 kids, sixpak to buy and many
cars to come. The real restoration did not start until
4-1994 when the motor went to the machine shop and the
car was taken out of storage 7-94. The car has not
lived outside overnight since. By 6-97 the engine
compartment and front end was restored. The motor was
done and 1st ran. Then the bottom of the car, the
interior and floor, trunk restoration, more of life�s
little distractions, door jams and finally the
exterior was painted 6-05. The car is now all
restored, panted and running great. My official
completion date is 8-25-05 when the pictures you see
were taken.
This car was built as an investment and will help me
kick off my new business. It has only been driven 22
miles mostly for tuning, alignment, brake system
bleed, adjust, and pictures since completed. It will
stay off the road scratch and rock chip free for the
next proud owner. I�ll really try! Not yet shown, but
I�m Tempted! 37,522 miles showing, trip reset to 0
when motor was first started.
The pictures hardly show how nice, straight, and shiny
the body and paint job is because it creates such a
huge glare in the pictures as soon as the light hits
it. It�s very cool in person, sucks in pictures.
I have supplied the vin # and a picture of the fender
tag for you to fully decode. I will list the important
codes and details to describe the car. I never had the
broadcast sheet from under the seat.

Factory items.
* 1973 Challenger Rallye car. (Code A57)
* Assy. plant Dodge Main, Hamtramck MI, USA (Code
B in vin.)
* Original 340 - 4-barrel car. Vin #JH23H3B308547
(Code E55)
* Power bulge hood with insulation pad. (CODE J54)
New 340 Magnum emblems. From the factory on this car
these were
340 4-barrel emblems, but they did not go as well
with the sixpak as the Magnum ones do.
(Yes if they ever made 340 sixpak ones that would be
nice) I did not replace the insulation pad but I do
have original clips!
* The car came with factory hood pins, new
aftermarket ones installed now
*   Strobe stripes (decorative side scoops there and
good condition) (Code VX6) I designed the side stripes
from the factory 1971 challenger R/T stripes and left
the strobe stripes off. Painted with black Dupont
Centari acrylic enamel flattened. This is not a T/A
Challenger.
The rear "340 sixpak" lettering are decals. Could be
changed to just 340 if the 4 bbl. was put on.
*   Front sway bar with new bushings.
*   Rear sway bar with new bushings..
*   8 3/4" suregrip rear axle 3.55 gears in original
489 carrier not rebuilt but serviced and in good
working order. Rear spring eye bushings were not
replaced.
*   Power Front disc brakes/ rear drums 10 ". (Code B41)
*   Power steering.
*   Wood grain Console shift slapstick floor shift (Code
C16)
*   727 automatic transmissions. (Code D34) Completely
Rebuilt with shift kit and installed right before I
bought the car. New front & rear seals installed with
motor. I now have the front lower tranny covers, not
installed.
*   Rallye gage cluster, woodgrain, 150 mph speedometer,
tachometer (Code N85), Clock, oil pressure,
alternator, and temp. Gage.
* Locking gas cap
*   Repainted Original eggshell white (Code EW1)
Original white on white. Painted with Dupont Centari
acrylic enamel.
* Original seats restored with new correct white
seat covers from Legendary interiors. Door and side
panels now black.(Code A6XW)
*   Rear window defogger / defroster.
*   Duel exhaust with chrome tips (Code N41 & N42). new
2.5" aluminized exhaust Installed with supertrapp
stainless steal mufflers.
I'm really happy!!! With the nice bass rumble at idle
and sounds even better on the gas, and the tunability
of the supertrapps will be fun to play with or run
wide open. Cross over tube not installed. I was not
sure I would like the torque converter and wanted to
leave the tranny easily accessible.
I do have the original exhaust tip hangers.
*   Built in USA (Code u)
* Chrome roof drip rail moldings. (Code M21)
* New wheel well opening moldings
* Good Year polyglas spare tire.White litters
scraped from laying facedown in the trunk. The black
letter side of tire is perfect.
* Original type jack
* The car is still licensed and relicenced 7-05
with the first plates it ever had and one plate still
has the original 73 tab. "

Super Blue 72 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2005 - 12:38:04 AM »

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

It looks much nicer than I expected but $21K is still too high for a modified '73 in my opinion. Does look like it would be a fun car though.

360 'CUDA · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2005 - 12:48:41 AM »

Like Elvis said

"Too much monkey business"

torredcuda · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2005 - 03:45:23 AM »

Looks like an amateur resto at best and has a lot of things done the wrong way even for a driver.For a `73 to bring over 20k it would need to be done correct and almost perfect.Worth 12-14k max.

Street_Challenged73 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 24, 2005 - 02:04:25 PM »

I've seen that car before advertised on the Internet. It's definitely not a $21,000.00 car, but it would be a nice driver for around $11,000.00 or so.

MEK-Dangerfield · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2005 - 03:42:01 PM »

The homemade side stripes don't get it for me, but other than that, not a bad car. He is dreaming with that asking price though. Definitely not worth more than 15K, I would say.

Mike

Author Topic: Is this a decent deal? (Read 2409 times)

DeadStang

Is this a decent deal?

stwheels

Re: Is this a decent deal?

js27

Re: Is this a decent deal?

DeadStang

Re: Is this a decent deal?

JS27N0B

Re: Is this a decent deal?

Rev-It-Up

Re: Is this a decent deal?

Carlwalski

Re: Is this a decent deal?

Super Blue 72

Re: Is this a decent deal?

MoparMan

Re: Is this a decent deal?

DeadStang

Here's the story and (hopefully) photos (VERY long)...

Super Blue 72

Re: Is this a decent deal?

360 'CUDA

Re: Is this a decent deal?

torredcuda

Re: Is this a decent deal?

Street_Challenged73

Re: Is this a decent deal?

MEK-Dangerfield

Re: Is this a decent deal?