Help with Cuda question

Author Topic: Help with Cuda question  (Read 2904 times)

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Help with Cuda question
« on: October 23, 2005 - 07:39:03 PM »
I am new to the world of Mopar. I have admired them from afar since young. I have the opportunity to now buy a 1971 Baracuda (Cuda). It is Lemon twist Yellow and has a date correct 383 although not the original 383 in it. Yes it was originally a 383 car. It has the black billboards, a black interior, the go wing, sport hood (shaker?), and an automatic. The car has been fully restored and is absolutely beautiful, but I don't know what it's worth. It has the broadcast sheet and it shows to be a 383 Baracuda Grand Coupe. Is the Cuda portion a trim level or derivitive of the Baracuda model? Is it a true Cuda? What is the difference between a Cuda and a Baracuda? What would this car be worth with a quality restoration and the NOM motor? Are these 383 Cudas rare. I normally see 318's and 340's. Thanks, I appreciate you guys helping out the newbie. Sal




Offline cooda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2005 - 08:41:34 PM »
I think that if you decide to do an original  restoration of the car, rather than make it a custom or resto-rod, I think you should put it back as a Gran Coupe, which was kind of a "luxury" Barracuda, with a nice interior, and take off the billboards.  The Cuda is a different model (kind of a sport/performance model) with engines available from 340 all the way up.  The largest engine you could get in the Gran Coupe was the 383. Of the 16,159 Plymouth Barracuda cars made in 71, only 1,298 of them were Gran Coupes. Don't know how many Gran Coupes were 383's, but I'll bet it is rare.  (I am not that knowledgable, but know where to look it up). The Barracuda is the base model which could get up to a 383, like the Gran Coupe.

Matching numbers is a plus, but less important in Mopars than say old Corvettes. But the 5th digit of the VIN, which tells the engine, IS important. A slant six letter (B or C) makes the car worth less than a 383 (L or N).

If it were a 318 Barracuda I would say don't spend a lot of money restoring it, but a big block Gran Coupe and a 71 to boot is worth it, as long as it's already in pretty good shape.  The replacement block isn't a reason not to so it, particularly since it is correctly dated and the right engine.
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline cooda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2005 - 09:03:35 PM »
Forgot to ask. Is the color correct per the build sheet? Is it rusty? These cars rusted like crazy, especially at the lower rear of the back quarter panels.

How much does he want?

Charles
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline 426HEMI

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5187
  • My M46 Barracuda! Member Since:October 01, 2005
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2005 - 09:05:13 PM »
The Gran Coupe was a Barracuda and not a Cuda.  The main difference was drive train and suspension.  The Gran Coupes had a console in the top of the car and the cuda did not.  The Gran coupe has a silver metal flake rear panel and the cuda was flat black.  I thought that only cuda's had this but now I have found out that the Barracuda with the M46 side scope option had the same flat black rear panels.  You can look in the body shop section to see all about this option.  I have had a 1970 Gran Coupe that was a 318 car.  I like the Gran Coupe as well.  If you have any questions you can send me a message and I will try to help.

Gordon
Got a pretty good start on my M46 optioned Barracuda restoration but now it is on hold till I can gather more funds.  Still need a few parts for it.  SIU Graduate 75 AAS Automotive Tech, 94 BS Advanced Tech Studies, 1997 MSED Workforce Education and Development

1970 M46 Barracuda
1998 Dodge Darango

Gordon

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2005 - 09:16:24 PM »
The Cuda has been fully restored...as a Cuda. It has the correct color codes, motor codes, etc. The only non correct code is BP instead of BS (Gran Coupe instead of Cuda). Here are some pictures. Any idea on worth? It ahs the build sheet as well.

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2005 - 09:54:08 PM »
Any idea on what this car might be worth? I want to make a fair deal on it, but don't want to get taken. Thanks. Sal

Offline cooda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2005 - 10:03:05 PM »
Well I don't know about the tail panel, but the Gran Coupe emblem on the tail panel is still there it looks like to me. The only thing I can see that "makes" it a Cuda are the billboards, which were not available with the Gran Coupe. The Cuda mats in the car are aftermarket. Are there 'Cuda emblems on the door panels? If it is really "converted", then it would, and the interior is different than the Gran Coupe.

If you take off the billboards, maybe it reverts back to a Gran Coupe, it seems to me.  (except maybe the rear panel paint). Do you like billboards? Some people do and some don't.

I had the privilege of seeing Milton Robson's 4-speed 71 Hemicuda convertible some years back up near Gainesville, Georgia before he sold it for $500,000. (It later sold for a mil, I heard) It was light blue metallic with no billboards and was really beautiful. My black 70 is a stripe delete car, and these side stickers (billboards in 71, hockey stick in 70) were optional in 70 and 71 for Cuda models only- they were not standard.

I am no expert on value on 71's, but the car looks valuable to me. What is he asking?

Charles
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2005 - 10:08:48 PM »
I was figuring it worth about 30-35K ( a very uneducated guess, more of a gut feeling), he says he into the car for 45K and thats what he figuring on. I really need to figure out real world what this car is worth, as that is a lot of money (for me) to be spending on a car. Sal

Offline cooda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2005 - 10:26:13 PM »
Ouch! Does the right VIN # appear stamped in the side of the transmission? Have you looked for rust underneath? For that kind of money, I would think it should be jam-up! No question it would be worth in the 30's. What else was changed on the car to make it look like a Cuda model? I think the attempted conversion actually reduces the value of the car and it would be worth more as a 383 Gran Coupe. They made 5,314 Cudas in 1971 and 1,298 Gran Coupes. Those numbers don't make a Gran Coupe worth more (Road Runners usually bring more than GTX's) but make it pretty rare. The fact that he says he put 40K in the car doesn't mean it is worth that. But it is a really desirable car. Too much money to pay if you are going to modify it and put in a 440 or something. Get a slant six car if you want to do that. And that is not a shaker hood. See attached picture of shaker hood setup- the shaker bubbles were black in 71.

Charles
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2005 - 10:43:30 PM »
Well, he claims he has 45000 into it. I believe that is what he paid for it. The car had been restored as a Cuda at that point. I am not looking to modify it any further than what it already is. The vin and number are right on the rest of the car; tranny, rear end etc. The tranny is the HD 727 tranny. Added mods were the go wing, billboards, blacked out rear, etc. I plan to keep the car as is and drive it. Thanks for clarifying the shaker hood. I had it right in my mind but had seen another car with the same hood advertised as a shaker. The car has absolutely no rust and is a documented 58,000 mile car. The title shows 58,000 "box a" (original) miles, the original title is also included as well as the current one and broadcast sheet.

Offline cooda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2005 - 10:56:22 PM »
Do you live near Florida? There is a Garlits Mopar show Nov 5-6 in Ocala (north central Florida) You would learn a lot about these cars if you went.
I don't know what a car like that sells for now. I bought mine in 1996 when the prices were much lower for these E-Body Plymouths than they are today. 71's usually bring more than comparable 70's. Also check prices in Hemmings Auto News, but you can't tell how nice the car is from an ad.
 
Front view of shaker hood on my car attached, as it cut off part of the side view for some reason. It would be rare to see an original  shaker hood on a 383 car.

Charles

70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2005 - 11:26:17 PM »
I live in Arizona. It is not the Shaker hood. I knew what Shaker hoods are but had seen another car with the sport hood? rally hood? (the one with the twin openings and bulges) advertised as a Shaker. I thought perhaps they changed the design and kept the name. It's definitely a Gran Coupe and it's definitely a 383 car with a HD 727 tranny.  I have been told it is somewhat rare. I just can't seem to figure out what a fair price might be.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005 - 11:54:16 PM by rd62rdstr »

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2005 - 12:58:47 AM »
What does P6Y3 on the fender tag mea? Also, how can I figure out a build date?

Offline hemi71

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2005 - 01:14:02 AM »
If you send me the fender tag info, I will decode it for you. e-mail it to me at dvmapres@aol.com

As far as value, IMO that car is a 30-35K car at best. It a nice car, but being a BP instead of a BS car knocks the $$ down on it.

Offline A383Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 475
    • Sal's Muscle Cars
Re: Help with Cuda question
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2005 - 01:25:47 AM »
Thanks I will send the fender tag info. My gut feeling was that it was worth around 30-35k. He's at 45K with it but is willing to talk. So I didn't want to blow it by offering too little or too much.