Hemicuda into major surgery

Author Topic: Hemicuda into major surgery  (Read 1490 times)

Offline cooda

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Hemicuda into major surgery
« on: November 15, 2005 - 06:23:59 PM »
I have finalized an agreement for a total rotissorie body/paint restoration on my favorite car. It's a real "R" code Hemicuda. but not numbers matching, with an unmatching but vintage 71 block, and a correctly dated Hemi automatic- but again with somebody else's VIN stamped in the side of the case. And it has the typical rust issues. But it is a real black/black original Hemi car and I have the build sheet and fender tag. Also it has pdb and the 4.10 Dana Super Trac Pac option- a little ususual on an automatic, which probably means the car was ordered strictly for drag racing (one of the first things I took off was the aftermarket Line-Lock). I have been told that non-matching is not as important on Mopars as other cars. I know "matching numbers" is a big deal on 60's Corvettes. And almost everybody tells me that you will MORE than get your cost of restoration out of a car like this if you sell it. I am selling a 64 Corvette to get the $ to restore the Cuda.

If the market stays high for these cars, after it is restored with new paint, I might be afraid to drive it. And if I don't drive it, then it ain't quite so fun to own. So maybe sell the car, and get a nice original 440 70/71  Cuda or Challenger, and keep the change- or buy even another Mopar. It would break my heart to do it, but I think maybe it's the smart thing to do. I bought this car at Carlisle when they were cheap in 1996, and have been trying to restore it as original since, but I really think the market is so high now that it has nowhere to go but down for these Hemi E-bodies.

Any opinions about the future values of these big block E-bodies? How could the market go higher?
Anybody think it is a bad idea to rotissorie the car? I plan to media blast it and use real Barracuda frame rails to replace the bad one(s). Total cost maybe $30,000.
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car




Offline Street_Challenged73

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2005 - 06:34:43 PM »
Personally, I feel these cars won't go down any. (level off at best)  I'd say it's definitely worth a complete restoration, provided you have sufficient funds, which you've already stated you would be selling a 'Vette to pay for it. (you should be good then)  I wouldn't be completely afraid to drive the car around after the restoration, but just be extremely careful with it when you do go out cruising. (these cars are meant to be driven, regardless of rarity.)  Keep us updated with how things go throughout the restoration process and enjoy it when it's finished! =)
1973 Dodge Challenger......................The ongoing project. (00/----\00)
1991 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo....The sunny day cruiser (RTBoost)
1990 Toyota Celica GT Liftback...........The new daily & winter driver.
All-American Muscle: 'Cudas and Challengers...Still the Elite and always will be.

                                                                                             
                 
Street_Challenged73 from Wisconsin

Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2005 - 06:42:13 PM »
Great car Cooda

Doesn't look rusty from here. What frame rails need replacing? I might be able to help you as I have a '70 Barracuda that was cut up.

Again, what a great project!!

Oldschool

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2005 - 06:42:46 PM »
I think that just like any market, these cars will go up and down as the market adjusts.  In recent history, as you well know, the corvettes have went way up, then ease back down. Tho they don't go anywhere near as low as they started, then they go back up to even higher levels. It's cyclical. But the thing you have going for you is the fact that they aren't making anymore Hemi cars. Go for it and enjoy it!  As far as driving a fully restored Hemi car--just make sure that you insure it to value. Those beasts are made to be driven.  Good luck and keep us up to date with your progress............Oldschool

Offline js27

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2005 - 06:48:26 PM »
I can't see the prices going any where but UP !! Back in the 90's when a 70 Hemi Cuda Convertiable was worth $ 100,000.00 people thought they topped. Then in early 2000's $ 500,000.00 was the going price and everybody said that's it they could only go down from there now your looking at a MILLION BUCKS. Think about it--there are only so many REAL cars out there and they are not making any more so why would the prices go down ??? The auction I was just at in Hilton Head a 70 HemiCuda bid up to $ 175,000.00 and didn't meet reserve and a 70 Hemi Challenger bid to
$ 205,000.00 and didn't hit the $ 250,000.00 reserve. If it is a real car you can't lose !!!! GO FOR IT !!!!
JS27
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006 - 02:24:35 PM by Rev-It-Up »
1967 GTX
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Offline cooda

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2005 - 07:28:26 PM »
js27: Interesting about the Hemicuda convertibles. I live in the Atlanta area, and there is a wealthy guy named Milton Robson who lives in Hall County, northeast of here that has an incredible muscle car collection, including an original paint slime green Hemi Superbird. When I saw his collection several years ago, he also had one of the only two real 4-speed 71 ragtop Hemicudas. (Blue with dog dishes- billboard delete.) He sold it for $ 500,000 to a local car dealer and I heard that the car was later sold for a Mil. But that doesn't mean that the market for Hemicuda convertibles will continue to go up to 2 million, does it?

 I was into these old Corvettes before Mopars and I guess I am a little paranoid that the non-matching numbers will really hurt the car if there is a market decline. I am told that part of the reason that the Hemi cars do not get hurt as bad as other cars is that in their heyday, a lot of folks blew them up- thus there aren't many matching Hemi cars. But then, the real matching ones ought to bring a lot more $, no?  I can tell you that in the last few years the market on the Hemi and 6-pack E-bodies is WAY UP percentage-wise compared to mid-year Corvettes

Of course, I guess the truth is that we don't really know what the market of these E-bodies will do, any more than we can predict future interest rates or the stock market.
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline Rev-It-Up

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2005 - 08:07:33 PM »
Wow!!!  You can't lose on that deal!  It looks like the car 71hemi just bought.  Very, very nice.
Rev-It-Up                                                             Yes, I'm a girl!
                         


Offline gb70

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2005 - 08:35:15 PM »
If you are going to base your decision on return on your investment:
Then based on the year that you bought it, and a 30-60k total restoration, I say you will still do OK.  It depends where you go and far you go (spend) on a complete, total restoration.

If you are wanting to do it for yourself:
I say go for it.  Later, when the time is right, if you wish to sell you still will be OK on the return.

Offline hemi71

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2005 - 08:38:04 PM »
Here how I look at this...I believe while we might see some "adjustment"  from time to time, the overall number on these cars is going to climb for at least the next 10 years. I dont think you can lose on a real R code car, a 30K layout to restore that car is a great move.

As far as driving it, thats your call, but if you insure it for what it's worth...I'd say DRIVE it! I cant see much fun in owning one of these cars unless it gets driven...part of the reason "clones" are so popular...just as much fun to drive, without the worries.

A friend of mine has a 14K original mileage 70 hemicuda 4 speed. he's owned it since 1980, and restored it from a former race car. he completed it about 3 years ago, and drives it quite a bit. Just a fantastic car, i give him props for getting that thing sideways boiling the hides!

Offline Triple Black hemi

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2005 - 10:03:49 PM »
Cooda.....you have a great car on your hands!  I can see your dilema....but I wouldn't let go of that car IMO........the car being an "R" code TX9 hemicuda...makes the car very desirable.

I would pay to have the car restored top to bottom.....Invest the money now.....and you will be thanking yourself in the future.  A correct year warranty block would be ideal...to help increase the value.  Furthermore.....is the shaker complete and original? What other options are on the car? You can't lose with a car like yours.....You could cash out and buy a few nice Mopars....but the person who buys your car will be benefiting in the long run.......The 70 R code hemicudas have more room for upward mobility IMO.  The market is Insane for these cuda's....but I believe the market will stay strong for years to come....and if not...then I see a buying opportunity on the way!

Good Luck.....Thanks for sharing.

"A recent article in USA Today helped illustrate how out of hand muscle-car values have gotten. The article noted that the price of gold has risen 46 percent and a barrel of oil is up 245 percent since 1998, but the value of a low-miles, matching-numbers '71 Hemi 'Cuda has skyrocketed 900 percent, from $60,000 to more than $600,000, in the same time frame. The most shocking example of the wretched excess in the muscle-car market is the reported $5 million recently paid for an original, matching-numbers Hemi 'Cuda convertible, one of just 11 such vehicles built before high insurance costs and stringent emissions standards brought the muscle-car market crashing back to earth in 1972."

National Dragster,  Aug 5, 2005  by McKenna, Kevin
« Last Edit: November 18, 2005 - 06:47:38 PM by Triple Black hemi »

Offline cooda

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2005 - 07:12:24 PM »
Well I think part of the appeal of these big block E- bodies is that people who drooled over them as kids now have a few bucks in the bank and can buy one. Supply and demand. Part of the reason why some of the very rare cars from the early 20th Century- some much rarer than these cars, don't bring the big bucks like they used to. Not as much demand anymore. The people who remember them as kids are mostly gone now. I think that eventually that will start to happen with these Cudas and Challengers- I just don't know when.

Another way to look at it is: If you inherited $200,000, would you buy a Hemicuda? (Number used just as an example- I don't know whether it would bring that restored). If the answer is no, then it means you prefer to have the $200,000. Or maybe you would rather buy a nice 440 6-pack Cuda and a new 505 horse Z-06 6 speed Corvette! (I am dying for one of those, by the way- but too expensive new- they are getting sticker plus $$$ now).

If you have the Hemicuda, would you sell it for $200,000? If so, then it means exactly the same thing- you prefer to have $200,000 or maybe two cars- a 505 horse Z-06 Corvette and a 6-pack Mopar.

Or to look at an extreme example- If you had title to a perfect matching 71 Hemi Cuda convertible, worth at least a million based on the last few sales, wouldn't most people reading this sell it? I definitely would!! I would much rather have the money.

Anyhow, getting all the rust out and the new paint on seems like the right thing to do- but I don't want to spend six figures on it for a Roger Gibson restoration. $30,000 seems about right.

It's a little scary though and I am selling an old Corvette (not worth nearly as much) to pay for it.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2005 - 09:06:34 PM by 4cruzin »
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car

Offline cooda

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Re: Hemicuda into major surgery
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2005 - 07:15:03 PM »
Sorry, don't know how to make the picture smaller. Can a moderator resize it? Thanks.
70 black/black "R" Code Hemicuda, automatic, Super Trac Pac 4.10 Dana, pdb
67 Top Flight Corvette 4 speed silver small block #s roadster
2002 6 speed silver Pontiac Trans Am SLP Firehawk
2008 Red Z06 Corvette
2002 Blue Lexus SC-430 retractable HT- Wife's car