switching VINs...

Author Topic: switching VINs...  (Read 14988 times)

Alaskan_TA

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2006 - 10:46:05 PM »
Regardless of opinions, hypothesis, religion or politics, VIN swapping is illegal. Federal crimes deserve federal time.  :wave:

Barry




Offline whitesatinmopar

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2006 - 08:48:07 AM »
Regardless of opinions, hypothesis, religion or politics, VIN swapping is illegal. Federal crimes deserve federal time.  :wave:

Barry


Yep, you can switch a vin #, but if caught your prizoner ID # will not change, just perhaps your cell mate/lover  :roflsmiley:
1969 Polara 500 vert.
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Offline Tropicalcats

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2006 - 09:07:07 AM »

Yep, you can switch a vin #, but if caught your prizoner ID # will not change, just perhaps your cell mate/lover  :roflsmiley:

And your new best friend is not gonna care what your number is when he's putting tatooes on your back. :22yikes:
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Offline 1BADFISH™

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2006 - 10:41:30 AM »
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plymouth-Barracuda-70-PLYMOUTH-CUDA-ORIGINAL-440-6-PACK-V-CODE_W0QQitemZ4577456301QQcategoryZ6409QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You guys must remember this car. I think this is a prime example of some sort of Vin# switchiing. This car sold for over 13K and is obviously beyond repair. I agree that if an original car body is beyond repair it should be layed to rest(with its title and vin#), this is what makes the already rare cares more rare and gives mopar their value. If every single hemi and 6-pack car was accounted for, it would be great but would make the cars slightly less rare, and possibly less desirable.  Just my  :2cents:

Dave

Oh Yeah, and of course it was a private auction to protect the guy who will probably relist the car, keep this Vin# close when searching for a V code cuda.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006 - 10:49:46 AM by 1BADFISH »

Dave
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Offline 71GTX

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2006 - 12:17:02 AM »
 :dogpile:  :nono:
69 RoadRunner (clone)
70 Cuda 383 4 speed (project) one of the first few off the line at Hamtramck with a 1017XX VIN
70 Cuda convertible 340 4 speed (project)
70 Barracuda (project)
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Offline chevyconvert

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2006 - 12:43:07 AM »
badfish, you are right on the money on that one! Notice how much emphasis was placed on the tags and numbered members. If the whole VIN # was ever given, it should be tracked somewhere and kept on a list. >:(

and then the added note confirms it ! sounds like people were asking if he'd cut out just the parts they wanted and ship with the tags!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006 - 12:45:49 AM by chevyconvert »
Eric
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Offline ozrt4406

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2006 - 01:39:35 AM »
 :newbie:gday guys hope all are well, this is a very interesting topic and although no one would swap vins on a mopar in oz ( there arent enough to go around ) and yes we can fix rust better than anyone in the world, i can bring up an interesting point>>> i work in the restoration field , up,market prestige stuff ( over here anyway) porsche benz muscle cars etc and we quite often have this discussion come up because of the repairs that have to be made to a certain vehicle ( a lot of times we have to repair or hand fabricate because parts are nor avail here. anyway i was talking to my boss about this subject( a tradesman 40+ yrs exp )showwinners / concourse winners etc, he brought up an interesting point. what deems a car a car?? if you look in a parts book the body shell is listed as a part number! therefore if you can replace any other part on a car , why not the body??? although not common place here it does go on so thats life.so when does a car become car??? when its stamped ? plated? assembled ? when??? the body is serviced as a spare part so if it wears out like a balljoint why cant you replace it??? just a theory guys . :eek2:
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Offline ozrt4406

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2006 - 01:59:03 AM »
 :newbie:a couple of other questions you guys . 1; i bought a car in las vegas ( its not shipped yet) a 62 dart hardtop anyway rolling body  no motor etc i notice a post referring you cant sell a car without a title in the usa ? is that correct ?? this car was imported from canada to usa last year , i have the bill of sale ( basically a reciept on paper ) and the canadian import papers . is this ok in the us as im nearly ready to ship it. 2; can anyone help me with freighting it on a truck from las vegas to LA  to the packers for shipping to oz?? the guy i bought it off seems very helpful ( no problems) thankswe dont have titles in oz for ownership.
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Offline ozrt4406

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2006 - 02:06:55 AM »
sorry for taking over , but it would seem to me the usa is cracking down hard on vin tag etc swapping but i cant believe they ever rivetted vin tags to dash pads?? all oz cars are rivetted to body. anyway in oz theres no laws re taking off tags for repainting / or reskinning dashpads etc etcjust because some bloke thirty years ago rivetted the tag to a dashpad does that really mean that you cant remove it?? political redtape and lawmakers gone mad id say . just fir the record i wouldnt rebody a vehicle but ive seen plenty.
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Offline ozrt4406

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2006 - 02:31:48 AM »
another strange thing is we are not allowed to reproduce fender/ vin tags under any circumstances yet i see them advertise freely in usa. :ebay:
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Offline hemi71

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2006 - 06:58:35 AM »
The VIN is a unique # assigned to a car when it's assembled at the factory. In the newer cars, it appears in numerous places on that car. To me, the body "shell" is what constitutes the car and it's respective VIN. I know you can replace parts of the shell, but i think it's pretty appearent what constitutes a VIN swap (or rebody) and what is just sheet metal replacement.  In our E-Bodies, it's on the radiator support, cowl, VIN plate riveted to the dash, the fender tag, and the Safety compliance decal on the drivers side door. The VIN plate on the dash is the only "official" federal ID plate. The fender tag and safety compliance decal, while displaying the VIN, are not "official" VIN Id's. The body numbers stamped in the cowl and radiator support are there to deter theft.  Back in 1970-74, nobody thought about faking a hemi car, but plenty of cars got stolen and the VIN's swapped with a car that was totaled to give you a legal car. The body #'s are there to confirm that the VIN plate belongs on that car. We never really cared about this #'s business back in the day, as long as the title matched the VIN, you were good to go.

Since the fender tag and safety decal are not official Id's, no problem reproducing them. I know you can get the federal dash VIN plate reproduced, but it requires quite a bit of documentation. Now I'm not so gullable as to believe if you know someone, you cant get one made up. Just like people have access to stamps and can transform a non- numbers car to a completely #'s match car....just need a hammer and as set of stamps. I've seen cars that i knew were not #'s match years ago now become #'s matching....go figure????

As far as titles go, each state in this country has it's own policies concerning titles for older cars. Some states don't have titles for older cars, and others do. You'd have to check with that state the car is registered in to see what documentation is required.

 :money:


Offline torredcuda

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2006 - 05:02:30 PM »
Quote
The VIN plate on the dash is the only "official" federal ID plate. The fender tag and safety compliance decal, while displaying the VIN, are not "official" VIN Id's. The body numbers stamped in the cowl and radiator support are there to deter theft.  Back in 1970-74, nobody thought about faking a hemi car, but plenty of cars got stolen and the VIN's swapped with a car that was totaled to give you a legal car. The body #'s are there to confirm that the VIN plate belongs on that car.

 :iagree: that is why there are vin #`s on the body,engine trans and nowadays lots of other places-to deter theft and identify a stolen car that had a vin swap or identifying a stolen engine.Purchasing another engine and swapping it in is perfectly legal even though it has a different vin # stamped on it.Body shops front and rear clip cars every day so a car could have different vin #`s satmped into different parts of it-all perfectly legal.The only reason the collector car hobby has a problem with rebodies is the big money involved in the rarer numbers matching cars.If you read the federal law tampering with vins is a crime only  if there is "intent to commit fraud".States also have thier own laws covering salvage vehicles and titles and the laws vary a bunch from state to state.Here in New Hampshire anything over 15 years old is bill of sale only and you don`t need and cannot get a titile for it.
Jeff
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Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2006 - 09:01:05 PM »
more :2cents: you wouldn't belive how many spots vins are in on 04's an 05's. And talk off obviuos junk goin for big $$ check out
71 chally convert post andthe update post . I will look again in a day or two an let everyone know what the bid is up to!
70 Chally R/T Convertible- Yes she's really got a HEMI, no she's not a Charger!
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                                                  OO 
                                              [o o o o]
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Offline whitesatinmopar

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2006 - 09:06:55 AM »
Each state may have it's own criteria for a legal title. Re: Here in Ohio when I bought our Chally with a salvage title (insurance totaled car) after and I emphasize AFTER she was restored I had to obtain papers to have her inspected by the state, drove her to the inspection garage and they litterally went over her with a magnifiying glass, beleieve me they know just where to look for the numbers. I had paper documentation from the insurance co., the salvage auction, the guy who bought her at auction, the body shop that did all the work, and signed papers with verification that the 360 that we put in replacing the original 318 was purchased from the parts vendor and even the vin# of the car it came from. After about $12,000.00 spent I was able to get a regular legal title and license to drive WSM. The inspection officer jokingly said to me he was just looking for some/any reason he could confiscate the car.  :roflsmiley:

Hindsight: If I'd had the body shop just put a new rear quarter and repair the spring shakle where it was pushed up through the trunk floor then drove her to the inspection station just as she was, then I could have done any parts replacing I wanted, but you still better keep any bill of sales you have from parts such as motors and trannys...............you just never know?
1969 Polara 500 vert.
1970 Charger 500
1971 Dart Swinger
1972 R/R 440+6 (wanabe)
1973 Challenger

Offline Steve

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Re: switching VINs...
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2006 - 09:28:51 AM »
This whole issue goes back to ancient times when the Greeks debated whether or not a ship that had had all of its planks replaced was the same ship. We have the same debate today. Set aside legal issues for a moment....If I own Car A and Car B and I combine substantial portions of each car to produce one car, which Car has "survived?" Some might argue that the Car whose parts constitutes a majority of the complete vehicle is the survivor. Some Mopar folks might say that the Car whose cowl, dash, and core support were used is the survivor. Some might argue that both cars are "dead" and a "new" car was "born". The point is that there are different ways to operationally define the "identity" of the car....of course, all of this is ultimately superceded by legalities...and guess what, states vary in their handling of such issues!

From a legal perspective, in the state of Florida, such a vehicle is supposed to be issued a "combination" title wherein the owner woudl surrender the titles for the two original cars and a new title would be issued. Don't ask me how they would assign a VIN because I don't know. I do know that the DMV can assign a VIN to a vehicle.

From the collector's perspective, the car builder wants to claim that the Car is the actually the Car that has the greatest market value. The car buyer wants a "real" car because of its value. If the construction is done in such a way that the car can be "accepted" by the community as the "real" car (i.e. the valuable car), then both parties win, yes?

All I know is that we should all inform ourselves of state laws and abide by them. When buying a vehicle, you should research the law and ask direct, pionted questions and get the answers in writing. Anyone who intentially misrepresents the facts, whether or not their actions are illegal, is making bad Kharma for themselves.