Author Topic: engine build  (Read 4115 times)

Offline ordjoe

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
engine build
« on: January 27, 2006 - 04:15:22 PM »
hi all i would like to put together a good 440 6 that will be not so expensive to build i have a auto 727 with shift kit and a b rear dont know the gears yet but i would like as much horse power i could get for my money any help maping this build will be great its going into a 70 cuda




Offline Killer_Mopar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1886
Re: engine build
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2006 - 04:39:22 PM »
For the money that you will have in the 6-bbl you could have a much better 440-4 bbl build. However, if you want the eye candy of the triple carbs and a decent amount of horsepower then just follow the basic build......Cam, headers, intake, heads, and ignition. Cant get more specific without knowing your budget and how tame you want the engine.
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline cudaaah

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 310
  • 71 HEMI cuda, 2015 ram 2500 mega cab diesal 4x4
Re: engine build
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2006 - 06:30:13 PM »
I too just bought a 6pac for my 440 .   I found out that my block is a low compression 73 mobile home block :crying:.  That if I put the 6pac on w/ that block/low compressoin, I wouldn't get much of a gain, if any.  I've decided to put the 6pac installation on hold since I'm currently into another cuda project.  I will get back to the 440, either a complete rebuild or look for a correcty date code (70 ) 440 and rebuild it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2006 - 09:47:41 PM by 4cruzin »

Offline ordjoe

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: engine build
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2006 - 11:36:10 PM »
just picked up a 440 block six pac rods and a pair of 906 heads just trying to map out were to go from here problem is im in hawaii so its hard to come by parts im trying not to go in the wrong direction seeing how this is my first build my first mopar

Offline Killer_Mopar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1886
Re: engine build
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2006 - 11:45:24 PM »
What type of budget are you looking at and what parts do you have beside the block, heads, and rods? Also, what is the condition of the heads?
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline ordjoe

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: engine build
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2006 - 12:01:24 AM »
looking at about 4-5k the heads are used think they need a rebuild another question what should i do with the heads use them or go aftermarket with my budget being what it is i dont know which way to go

Offline Killer_Mopar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1886
Re: engine build
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2006 - 12:08:02 AM »
the heads are used think they need a rebuild another question what should i do with the heads use them or go aftermarket

Depends really. If you are going to pay someone to port them, you should just go aftermarket. If you are going to port them yourself or dont care about porting, then have them rebuilt. You might also want to check into Aerohead because depending on your machine shop prices, they might actually be cheaper. With you budget you should be able to have pretty nice 440. However, need a little more info. Does that 4-5k include the 6pak assembly? Also, will you be building the engine yourself? If you dont have pistons or a crank then you might want to look into buying a stroker kit.....
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline ordjoe

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: engine build
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2006 - 12:12:25 AM »
thats looking to be perfred route get a stroke kit and yes the budget will include the 6 setup maybe i might need to save some more cash or can i still pull this off i think i will attemp the build myself just hope i dont screw anything up   

Offline Killer_Mopar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1886
Re: engine build
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2006 - 12:33:22 AM »
I am in the process of building an engine right now. I will tell you that a reputable machine shop will take a good chunk out of your budget. I would concentrate on building the best shortblock that you can because everything else can be upgraded later. The stroker kits with rings and the good stuff run around $1500-$1800 at 440source. All the other components to finish the shortblock can also be bought at 440source for a good price. With that budget I would just refresh the 906s and save up for Edelbrocks. Basically this is what I would buy:

Stroker assembly ~ 1500-1800 (440source)
High Vol oil pump ~ 50 (440source or mancinis is slightly more but brings bolts)
Balancer            ~ 135 (440source)
Timing Chain       ~ 60 (440source)
T.C. Cover         ~ 35 (Mancini)
Oil Pan & pickup  ~ 150 (mancini)
ARP Main Studs   ~ 50 (Mancini)
Windage tray      ~ 50 (Summit Racing)

That puts your shortblock right around $2000-$2500 without tax, shipping, machine shop costs, or tools to assemble it yourself. Also, I wouldnt buy any of this stuff without getting a quote from a machine shop.....
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline 71383bee

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: engine build
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2006 - 12:39:30 PM »
Aren't those 6 pac setups around $2500 new? 

I would consider either the aerohead heads or even the 440 EZ heads from Indy.  If fact I am real curious to hear any feedback regarding the new EZ heads from Indy if anybody's used them...
71 - 383 FC7 Super Bee

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: engine build
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2006 - 10:53:01 PM »
the Indy EZ are nice , very similar to the Bulldogs I used 2 years ago

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 71383bee

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: engine build
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2006 - 08:28:04 AM »
CP

How do they stack up with the edelbrocks?  I am also curious about that dual plane intake they have.  Suposedly it is as good as the ED RPM, unfortunately they don't have one for the non-RB blocks. 
71 - 383 FC7 Super Bee

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: engine build
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006 - 12:45:27 AM »
I like the EZ better than the Eddy , better combustion chamber size & shape , the casting is better , the only downside I could see was the oil drain back out of the head seems restrictive

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Follicly Challenged

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: engine build
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006 - 10:49:01 AM »
Some History for anybody interested. No wars wanted, go check it out for yourself.

The "EZ" INDY head was a result of  INDY's desire to compete with the new,(at that time), introduction of the BULLDOG head, with the much "BALLY-HOO'd " HYPE !

Seems that it was one of INDY's pattern makers, that "jumped ship" as it were, and went elsewhere, and began production of the BULLDOG head for himself/new employers/partners ? Hence some similarities of the BULLDOG to the INDY SR.

INDY, not one to lose claim to the "best street head" moniker, that argueably, their INDY "SR" head held at that time, redid the "SR" head, albeit, with the revised, and lower, exhaust port configuration for direct competition with the BULLDOG's "stock exhaust port location" sales pitch.
( A PROBLEM FOR THE INDY"SR'S" at the time, WAS THE RAISED EXH. PORT WINDOW AND HEADER/APPLICATION CLEARANCE ON RB BLOCKS) The "SR", and all INDY heads, were designed to place the exhaust port location, when used on a "B" block, in the same position, as if an 'RB" had been used, for header fit. Problem was, when used on an "RB", it was "up & out" a further 3/4" further still ! Can we say "header grief"  !! Same Common exh. port location to all INDY heads, 440-1, 572, etc.

Interesting note here, was that up until that time, the "SR" head was considered a "WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING", and argueably, the BEST head out there, for those wishing to upgrade using stock intake manifold, rocker gear, etc., etc.

Many magazines, and builders, including myself, could attest to, and document, up to 340 cfm on "critical" benchs from INDY SR heads, in a fully ported version, utilizing max-wedge port window.
"HOLY BIG AIR BATMAN ! " for a bolt on head, that accepted a customers stock parts ! Albeit remember the aforementioned "header/application" pains of the SR.
INDY re-did the "SR" slightly, with a "stock location" exhaust port, and presto !  INDY "EZ" head WAS BORN !

IMHO, no wars wanted, I personally have to give "the nod" in a price/power potential comparison, to the INDY EZ head, and INDY quality control in production, for fit, finish, and proven ease of useable power, especially when strokers up to 500 inch are contemplated. If header clearance is not a problem, the SR version is still offered also, and delivers more at the higher rpm's/nitrous, with the raised exhaust.

If price is a factor, EDDY's are a great head also, as are many others, but the rest are "comparably" priced closer to the INDY EZ & SR. Seems "we get what we pay for", is in effect.

I could go on forever, but I'm too long winded already, "bottom line" is that there's lots of "great heads" out there these days for one to choose from. Makes re-working the old iron stuff pretty much redundant price-wise when considering final product we want. We're WAY BETTER off than 10-15 yrs ago !

Good luck and hope this helps, with whatever head you choose.

Offline 71383bee

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: engine build
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2006 - 01:03:06 PM »
Thanks for the info.  i have been contemplating doing a head swap in an attempt to correct the groans of cross threaded spark plug holes, and ill fitting headers.  My problem is that my lack of knowledge when I had the engine done lead to my in ability to realize the pitfalls of a low compression motor.  The KB162's were inserted to a block that i did not zero deck.  So now I have a mid size cam with oversize heads and compression in the low 8's with average cylinder psi of 135 psi. 

the motor is good, but it could have been better if i had just used my head a little more.  Anyways I was contemplating getting better heads first and eventually redoing the block with better pistons as time and money would allow. 

I apologize if we have strayed off topic here...
71 - 383 FC7 Super Bee