Author Topic: my Hemi engine numbers found? (Read 5936 times)

Green Drop Top · « **Reply #30 on:** February 20, 2006 - 03:59:09 PM »

Quote

Can I interrogate the DMV to do a back round on the Vin no.s of George's Hemi Cuda?
If they traced all prior registered owners, George and I could track down when the engine and car became separated.Yes, that's a longshot. Does the Vin no. appear to be an early 70 production? The paraplegic guy probably won't help me at all from who or where he bought the engine from.

Not likely, California purges any records of unregistered vehicles after 10 years of unregistered ownership. George bought that car from me 19 years ago and has not even titled or registered it to the best of my knowledge. That being the case, the chances of the DMV having any history on that car are slim to none. Start out by looking for Ken Moss in Half Moon Bay, he's the guy I bought it from, maybe there's a slim chance you can find him and get some prior owner history. As I recall he was 30-40 years old back then so he's probably still kicking around.

Good luck!

70Challey340 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 20, 2006 - 09:27:17 PM »

"As The World Turns".

Topcat · « **Reply #32 on:** February 20, 2006 - 10:09:53 PM »

I looked earlier today and found about 30, Ken L. Moss in CA. alone.

You'll be eating pop corn now for quite a while before I find him.

Topcat · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2006 - 11:30:02 AM »

Well, it looks like this match about my engine and his car is coming to a close.

I just got off the phone with Scott. Apparently, my carb is a late 70/71 carburetor. Highly unlikely that the carbs and intake are from another Hemi.
That would indicate that my engine is a 71. So the bad news is that my engine isn't a 70 after all.
But the good news is that it appears it's a 71 engine for my 71.

However, if I never chased down the possibility that they were once together, a 70 Hemi Cuda
would've sat without the possibility of being put back together.That would've been a chapter in itself.

All I can say is that it never hurts to try.

Whether George is still willing to let me take pics of his car now remains uncertain.
I'll continue to chat with him and see where it goes.

4Cruizn · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2006 - 02:25:12 PM »

Thanks for the update! At least you're learning some history!

Green Drop Top · « **Reply #35 on:** February 21, 2006 - 02:33:29 PM »

Just so it's clear about the carbs, what you have there(ML9 4745S) is a 1971 Carb (not a late 70/71). The factory used left over 70 carbs on most production line built 1971 hemis (however some of the very last 1971 model year cars produced may have gotten the correct numbered 1971 carbs). Either they had excess inventory of 70 model year carbs, or the carb manufacture was late to deliver the proper 71's in time for production, whatever the case, they used the leftover 70's (with 1970 part number tags and foot stampings) removed the rear carb black bakelite auto choke assembly, added the rear carb manual choke linkage, then stamped a large "M" ahead of the part# on the foot (which stood for "modified"). This is clearly visable on your carb picture so that carb is definately from a 71 model year car, the front carb should have the M as well if it's a matched set.

The carb #ML9 4745S breaks down as follows:

M = Modified (which makes it a 71 carb after all)
L= Month first assembled (November 69)
9 = Year carb assembled 1969
4745S = 1970 426 Hemi Manual Trans, Rear Carb

Topcat · « **Reply #36 on:** February 21, 2006 - 02:46:44 PM »

BTW, Scott. Thank you so much for all your assistance in finding all this out.

rallyechall · « **Reply #37 on:** February 22, 2006 - 06:30:53 AM »

I figured I would put my 2 cents worth in on this subject. Look at the facts. You have a hemi; and it is possibly a hemi that belongs to a certain car. The serial numbers have been ground off. This creates some doubt or at least suspicion. The other party does not want to give up the car. Now, think about this. If you partner with this individual, will that car ever be restored to factory original? When it is finished, would you sell it to make the money? Chances are it won't sell as original since the numbers have been ground off, and any serious investor looking for one will certainly question the validity of the VIN number on the block and shy away because of this debacle. Who will you have to restore the car? If the other party hasn't already, chances are it won't be restored. Everyone knows it is bad business to partner with someone else especially on one common project like this. Who will have possession? Who will have registration? Possession is 9/10ths of the law. I don't think this other party would let the car out of his sight. Are you willing to risk your hemi for that? This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. In conclusion, I would sell the motor to the guy with the car for the amount to buy yourself a complete 528 Mopar Performance hemi, or comparable from Dick Landy, as compensation for this guy to have maybe the correct hemi for his car. The new blocks are stronger, and it is still a hemi. It has more horsepower, and you will not have to scrounge for original parts. Otherwise you have a hemi with grind marks on the pad. I am sorry but that would send up serious flags if I was looking to get work done on it. It may raise questions to the machine shop also. If they are reputable, they may contact the authorities to see if it was stolen, and that could lead to a lot of hassle. Way more than you want to be involved with. Sorry to go on, but look at the big picture so you don't get burned down the road. I am waiting to see how it goes for you though.

1BADFISH� · « **Reply #38 on:** February 22, 2006 - 11:01:52 AM »

On a more positive note, if you're hemi is from a 71 car, it makes it that much more rare. Now, to find a 71 Hemi car missing the engine.

Topcat · « **Reply #39 on:** February 22, 2006 - 11:47:30 PM »

Rallyechall, not all business ventures with cars or other types of vehicles go bad. Many race teams are built because they formed a partnership. Selfishness of who owns more or who gets what is the descructive thoughts of any partnership to begin. Of course some die and some live. Many of our businesses in our country are built out of trust with our other fellow man. And a business is worth far more than any Hemi Cuda if it grows to a respectible size and profit. As far as selling it, that would've been the most probable outcome had it all worked out in the end. It was only a theory that could've presented itself if everything fell into place. Not that it easily would have. But the possibility still remained that it could happen.
As for now, Scott and I had a lengthy talk about the car and my engine. It appears that his car is way too far gone to restore to get the type of cash that would create incentive to do the joint project in the first place. If George wants to persue my 71 in his 70 and offered me a 528 in replacement that ran...well, that's a no brainer of a deal to take. The numbers are definitely retrievable with today's forensic technology. If the engine was hot, I certainly would not be putting all this information here about it. The friend who sold it, has the paperwork to show he took ownership of it before me. Plus, there are many credible witnesses of his character and his doings. He is well known throughout the community due to his physical limitations from a mishap in his past. His word would carry any credibility of any project I may deem on the engine in the future. For now, I will talk with George and listen to what his plans are with his car. But it really looks like now that he will do his project and I will do mine. This all started with a "what if" and it was worth it all to see where this may go.

rallyechall · « **Reply #40 on:** February 23, 2006 - 06:25:43 AM »

I hope I didn't offend you with my last post. The business I am in, which is "Legal Publishing", I am able to see what the law states, and the outcome of lawsuits. I would hate to see anyone lose on a situation. I sincerely hope it works out for both of you. As far as "too far gone", what is too far gone? Is it worth saving with expectation of a company such as Goodmark coming out with replacement panels for it to resurrect it? I am lucky in the fact that I never welded the patch panels on my Challenger, but waited long enough that full quarters were actually produced. I like the full panel repair to the patch panel repair, as it will make my limited bodywork experience easier. I think it will help the value of my car also. An original hemi car could fetch a ton of cash if it was sold regardless of what condition it had been in, or a ton of enjoyment if you decided to keep it. It would be shame if the car were not put back together to once again roam the streets.

Plum6Pak · « **Reply #41 on:** February 23, 2006 - 06:43:03 AM »

Green Drop Top · « **Reply #42 on:** February 23, 2006 - 06:51:36 AM »

Quote

I hope I didn't offend you with my last post. The business I am in, which is "Legal Publishing", I am able to see what the law states, and the outcome of lawsuits. I would hate to see anyone lose on a situation. I sincerely hope it works out for both of you. As far as "too far gone", what is too far gone? Is it worth saving with expectation of a company such as Goodmark coming out with replacement panels for it to resurrect it? I am lucky in the fact that I never welded the patch panels on my Challenger, but waited long enough that full quarters were actually produced. I like the full panel repair to the patch panel repair, as it will make my limited bodywork experience easier. I think it will help the value of my car also. An original hemi car could fetch a ton of cash if it was sold regardless of what condition it had been in, or a ton of enjoyment if you decided to keep it. It would be shame if the car were not put back together to once again roam the streets.

I don't think he was talking about sheet metal when he said "too far gone", the body on the car is rust free and straight.

The problem is that it's missing nearly all of it's documentation (Fender Tag, Broadcast Sheet, Numbers Matching Drive Train). The car does have an original VIN tag, radiator core and cowl stamping. Not to mention needing a complete Hemi drive train, complete Shaker Hood set up, and many other rare and expensive Cuda & Hemi specific parts.

Basically what I believe he was saying is that even with a ground up restoration in terms of value it would pale by comparisons to an equal quality/optioned numbers matching example. It would certainly be worth a fortune anyway, but after an extensive, expensive restoration, would there be much left to profit if sold as a business transaction between two parties? Personally I don't think so. Certainly not junk, it's certainly a rare, and a valid original car worthy of a ground up restoration, but if done purely for making a substantial profit it may be a tough goal to reach even if it is a Hemi Cuda.

Topcat · « **Reply #43 on:** February 23, 2006 - 07:51:31 AM »

Thanks Scott for clarifying what I meant.
and no offense taken. your thoughts are worthy of listening to Rallyechall.

Author Topic: my Hemi engine numbers found? (Read 5936 times)

Green Drop Top

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70Challey340

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Topcat

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Topcat

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4Cruizn

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Green Drop Top

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Topcat

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rallyechall

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1BADFISH�

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Topcat

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rallyechall

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Plum6Pak

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Green Drop Top

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Topcat

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