Author Topic: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles  (Read 3860 times)

Offline Old Moparz

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Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« on: February 20, 2006 - 11:31:44 PM »
In the new Mopar Collectors Guide, Premiere Plastics has a small business card sized ad. The ad shows a front end on a 1971 Cuda with the words "Final Production Run" & a price of $499 plus shipping. This is actually have the first ad I've seen other than an ebay listing. I didn't buy the magazine last night when I saw it, but I may get it this week. I have no idea why such a hot item would be so quickly dropped unless Chrysler was on their backs or someone paid them to stop, like a competitor.

I'm not posting to bad mouth them or start rumors & speculation, I was content with the grille I had gotten from them. I just wanted to post this in case someone else was anticipating a future purchase of a Cuda grille, or even another grille from them if they ever make one. At $499, it's a good deal because I paid $599 just over a year ago. I also just saw an "I-have-to-have-that-part-and-win-the-auction-by-paying-too-much-bidder" on ebay pay $1000 for a repro grille.
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kudakidd

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2006 - 08:18:37 AM »
That's too bad about them ceasing production. They filled a need in this hobby and put a crimp on the greedy who sold their so-called NOS stuff.

Offline moparnut

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2006 - 08:42:38 AM »
Ya someone like YO will buy them all and charge 1500.00 for them,anyone want to bet on that happening? :pullinghair:
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Offline Green Drop Top

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2006 - 12:01:43 PM »
What most people don't realize is that these grills were not made the same way that originals were made.

Originals were injection molded from ABS plastic, the process for those not familiar is as follows;

 A VERY large steel mold is made in the shape of the grill, this mold is basically two halves which, interlock, and seal closed tightly under tons of pressure making a hollow cavity. A typical A&B half injection mold can be simple in appearance but actually can be a very complex articulating puzzle of precision made steel parts that open and close as each part is molded and removed. Most of these tools also have a complex series of water pathways just like a giant radiator for cooling around the mold cavities so that the molten resin quickly returns back into a solid. All of this custom precision maching work can end up being a VERY expensive, one of a kind, high precision injection mold/tool.

The cost for re-creating such a tool would easily be in the 6 figures (my guess for a tool so large would be 200-500K...No kidding, even in China!). Once the mold is done you'd still need to find a company who does custom injection molding with not only the proper size press to run the parts (it's rare to find available press time on a 2,000-4,000 ton press which is as big as a small house) but who is also willing to set up this huge press for a miniscule run of a couple thousand parts which would only take a couple days to accomplish (most of these presses are set up with a tool to run a single part 24/7 for weeks on end without interuption).

In most cases the material used in this process begins as a powder or solid pellet of plastic (ABS in this case). The plastic is fed into the machine via a funnel traveling into the screw & barrel of the press where it is then heated under pressure until it is a liquid. It is then shot into the mold under high pressure and fills the mold where it quickly hardens to a solid again. The mold then opens and releases the new part.

The properties of any plastic are unique, each plastic resin (and there are many thousands of blends) is specifically engineered and chosen to withstand various environmental conditions according to the desired end use application. In this case ABS was chosen because it is tough, chemical resistant and would hold up well in extreme envirnonmental conditions (freezing to hot sunny weather).

Now, onto how Premeire Plastics made thiers. A TOTALLY different method.

Rather than starting with dimentions/blue prints (how the original mold was made) or by using a modern digital file of the part itself which would be used to recreate a steel (or aluminum) tool like the originals made from, they simply took an existing original grill, build a box around it with space for mold material, and poured in a type of liquid silicone rubber to mold around the original part. Once the rubber set up the mold was pulled open, and the original part was removed which left a part shaped cavity. This cavity was then filled with a two part liquid casting urethane. Once the urethane set up the part was then pulled from the silicone mold and what you have is a cast Urethane reproduction grill. Sounds nice until you consider a few major differences between these and originals. The part will not be the same size as an ABS part, there WILL be small dimensional differences due to the material shrink variables from an ABS part to a cast Urethane part, your new grill will be some amount smaller than an original, may not be a large amount, but smaller it will be. This can affect how well your original trim fits (or doesn't fit). Also, due to the Urethane having different properties as compared to the original ABS injection molded material you could have cracking issues, heat warpage issues (most likely) or chemical resistance issues with common automotive products that may end up on the part (like gas & oil).

Now those are your problems, the problems Premeire might have had could have stemmed from customer complaints accordingly or simply from production headaches. These silicone molds degrade from use VERY fast, they were  never meant to be production tooling, most are designed simply to make cost effective prototypes to prove a design before building an expensive steel high volume injection mold tool. If they got 30 good grills from one mold before it was deemed worthless I'd be suprised. Then a new mold would need to be make using the original grill again (using a reproduction for this, being somewhat dimensionally smaller, would not make a good pattern). Maybe they no longer have an original around?

*I have heard those who say Premeire claims to have built an aluminum mold for these. If that be the case I'd be VERY surprised to hear it, especially since they claim the tool is now worn out and unusable (which would not be the case if an aluminum tool is used for casting parts) and since they do admit the parts are actually castings and not injection moded.
Due to their reproduction grills having the factory appearing injection molded ejector pin marks (created in the original parts by steel pins that help eject the part from the injection molds) it is obvious that the mold they used for casting was cast off of an original part as these marks were transfered into the silicone mold and then onto the cast parts. Obviously you can't pour molten aluminum over an original plastic part to create these subtle marks in the mold so a Silicone mold was used, pretty much an open and shut case.

Anyway, just my $2.50 worth :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:
« Last Edit: February 21, 2006 - 03:38:06 PM by Harms inc. »

Offline Old Moparz

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2006 - 12:08:14 PM »
Scott,

Glad you posted all that, & you may want to read a comment on DodgeCharger.com made by someone who has sold a few grilles on ebay for Premiere.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10102.0.html

He said the mold wore out. (Interesting since I was originally told it was aluminum.)

L&P out of PA is supposed to be starting production on the same grilles. They have some quality parts available already, like B-Body consoles, so it should be decent. I don't have a link handy, but I've posted it several times already so it should be easy to find in a search.
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Offline moparnut

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2006 - 12:11:29 PM »
that was more like 29.95 worth, :bigsmile:
I know what you mean,I rep for several injection molding manufacturers,the molds are big bucks and can take 6-8 months to build,as you said even in china,not a Mom and Pop investment to do it right
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Offline Green Drop Top

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2006 - 12:26:45 PM »
Quote
that was more like 29.95 worth,
I know what you mean,I rep for several injection molding manufacturers,the molds are big bucks and can take 6-8 months to build,as you said even in china,not a Mom and Pop investment to do it right

 Yea, sorry to bore everyone with the general details of Injection molding but it's difficult to answer some questions without doing it. I hope my ramblings aren't too annoying (I spent 14 years of my carreer in design & marketing for a custom plastics injection molder and a custom thin gauge thermoformer, it's sort of in my blood for life now)
 :icon16:

Offline Rev-It-Up

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2006 - 12:35:00 PM »
Actually Scott, that was a great read and I learned quite a bit!   Definately NOT boring!  Thanks!
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Offline moparnut

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2006 - 01:39:30 PM »
Yea, sorry to bore everyone with the general details of Injection molding but it's difficult to answer some questions without doing it. I hope my ramblings aren't too annoying (I spent 14 years of my carreer in design & marketing for a custom plastics injection molder and a custom thin gauge thermoformer, it's sort of in my blood for life now)
 :icon16:
Not at all I was just having a little fun:)Now it you go into Blow molding as well and the differences I may start to snooze,lol
thanks
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
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Offline Green Drop Top

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2006 - 02:25:21 PM »
LOL! Actually I did alot of work with the largest private Blow Molder West of the Rocky Mountains, so while I don't care to get into the differences, I'm very familiar with it as well. Definately a different process as compared to Injection Molding that's for sure (or Rotational molding, or Thermoforming, or......etc.etc.etc.)
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Offline JCWCuda

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2006 - 02:38:02 PM »
Thanks for the info Harms , I drive for a common carrier and have delivered many small molds to some plastics companys in our are and always wondered about them

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Offline Triple Black hemi

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2006 - 02:42:14 PM »
Thanks Scott for your reply....your knowledge is always appreciated on the message boards!  :cheers:

Offline OzCuda

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2006 - 06:59:51 PM »
So now if anyone would like to send me their good-quality 70 cuda grill, I promise to have a look at making up some moulds for repro ones and promise to get your old grill back to you  ::)  Obviously, this is a purely generous offer to the C-C community on my behalf and in no way constitutes an attempt to replace my broken grill by dodgy means :naughty:
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Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2006 - 09:35:36 PM »
Alot more than I ever new about it, An I've been in the parts business for over 20 years! Thanks :clapping:
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Offline 71fish

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Re: Premiere Plastics Dumping Cuda Grilles
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2006 - 06:29:29 AM »
Scott - you didn't even get into the really boring stuff.. rheology. polymer degradation due to high shear rate.. glass transition, thermal viscosity etc..

Oh the memories it brings  LOL   :eek4:

So, I'd like to hear your opinion if you or anyone else has purchased one and installed it along w/ the stock trim. I'm an arm stretch away to ordering one. Got an email from Angela @ the company.. $600.. shipped to my door. If this other company picks it up.. bet they'll will be similarly be casting it as well. Ebay selling the company's repos for > a grand. The way I see it. It's a cheap.. wrong word.. it's an inexpensive way to keep a spare for my Cuda. Like I said on the other thread.. i may buy this so I can paint body color (black), while keeping the original argent.

Christ.. $600.00 doesn't even buy you 1/2 a nice rimblow wheel.

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