Frame questions

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    Author Topic: Frame questions  (Read 3983 times)

    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Frame questions
    « on: April 17, 2006 - 04:41:47 PM »
    Hey everyone.  I have got some questions about the frame of my car.  I am about to weld in my new rear section of frame and before I got started I wanted to make sure that everything was straight.  The back end of the car is up on jack stands and I have the leaf springs in place.  As a reference, I dropped a plum bob down from the two front bolts of the K-member and made a line.  From the center of that line I came straight out at 90 degrees and used a chalk line to make a perpendicular line the entire length of the car.  So for instance I have this drawn below my car.
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2006 - 06:50:47 PM by Rev-It-Up »
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004


    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #1 on: April 17, 2006 - 04:42:21 PM »
    From there I dropped a plum bob down from the inside of the drivers side leaf spring at the front and rear hangers.  It measured 21 3/4” at the front and 23 1/4” at the rear, for a difference of 1 1/2”.  Is it supposed to be like that? 
    « Last Edit: June 19, 2006 - 06:51:10 PM by Rev-It-Up »
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004

    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #2 on: April 17, 2006 - 04:42:55 PM »
    I did the same procedure on the passenger side spring and the measurements are 20 3/4” at the front and 21 3/4” at the rear, for a difference of 1”.
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004

    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #3 on: April 17, 2006 - 04:43:55 PM »
    So assuming that I didn’t totally mess up my layout for the center line, what the frack is going on here?  Does anyone have a frame book or have they taken these measurements before and know approximately what they are supposed to be?  Are the leaf springs supposed to be parallel with the center line, or are they supposed to angle out  towards the back of the car an 1” or so?  Any help or advice would be much appreciated.  Let me know if you need some more info or pretty pictures.  Thanks!

    Kyle
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004

    daves70

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006 - 04:49:39 PM »
    Good luck Kyle, I don't have a clue. :dunno: :clueless: But hopefully somebody here will!!! :grinyes:
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    Offline rallyechall

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006 - 05:12:52 PM »
    I am looking at a frame picture in the Challenger & Barracuda Resto guide. The front and rear hangers do not look as though they are in  line with each other. They measure differently. I will try to scan this image and send it along, and you can measure they way they do to check for square.
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    Offline ShelbyDogg

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006 - 06:08:40 PM »
    Challengers and Cudas always said in the Mopar Cookbook that the springs aren't parallel to the centerline for handling purposes. That's why they always said that additional tire clearance is available by moving the spring parallel to the frame with offset shackles. Use the frame holes for measuring like the Body Service Manual shows.

    When checking your frame straightness ALWAYS also use DIAGONAL measurements. I had to build a full tube chassis race car and diagonal measurements are the only way to square up everything.
    Rob
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    Rob

    3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

    My Pace Car restoration thread:
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0

    Oldschool

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006 - 06:45:26 PM »
       :dunno:   :clueless:   Good luck    :cheers: 
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    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006 - 08:22:39 PM »
    Quote from: shelbydogg on April 17, 2006 - 06:08:40 PM
    Challengers and Cudas always said in the Mopar Cookbook that the springs aren't parallel to the centerline for handling purposes. That's why they always said that additional tire clearance is available by moving the spring parallel to the frame with offset shackles. Use the frame holes for measuring like the Body Service Manual shows.

    When checking your frame straightness ALWAYS also use DIAGONAL measurements. I had to build a full tube chassis race car and diagonal measurements are the only way to square up everything.
    Rob

    My rear frames look like swiss cheese (plus I already removed the PS rear frame) so using the frame holes may not work.  I guess I'll have to go freestyle or something.  Sounds like I need to buy a manual or two.  At www.moparmanuals.com I found the "Body Service Manual" and the "Chassis and Service Manual."  I mainly need info about frame measurements and stuff, so which one do I need, or should I get both?   
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004

    Offline ShelbyDogg

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006 - 10:16:44 PM »
    No, you shouldn't have to buy a body manual. There are so many people on here that someone will scan one and send it up. I also remember a post here about online manuals. Can someone post a link if they find it?  Did you measure diagonals and cross them at the rear to get your centerline placement?
    Rob

    I'll try to scan the frame measurements from the BODY manual. If I remember to pick it up, where I store my Chall.
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    Rob

    3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

    My Pace Car restoration thread:
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0

    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #10 on: April 18, 2006 - 12:00:29 AM »
    Quote from: shelbydogg on April 17, 2006 - 10:16:44 PM
    Did you measure diagonals and cross them at the rear to get your centerline placement?

    Do you mean to measure out the same distance from the K-frame bolts and strike an arc?  If both arc's intersect over my center line will this enusre that my center line is indeed exactly perpendicular to the line of the front K-frame bolts?  Like this:
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004

    Offline chevyconvert

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #11 on: April 18, 2006 - 12:20:24 AM »
    I'm pretty sure he meant to measure from corner to corner to insure squareness.
    Picture looking thru an open ended box. As you shift it from side to side it goes out of "square".
    When the distance from corner to corner diagonally is the same measured both ways it'd be perfectly square. :2cents:
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    Eric
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    Offline ShelbyDogg

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #12 on: April 18, 2006 - 06:51:23 AM »
    That works. Saying "SQUARE" just meant making sure that that centerline was really centered, either by splitting a box or measuring as you did. The farther out you go gives you more accuracy. That'll work.  I read in and old Mopar Mucscle where one front leaf spring bolt hole was farther rearward by 1/4" so they welded washers over the hole to move it forward.
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    Rob

    3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

    My Pace Car restoration thread:
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0

    Offline torredcuda

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    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #13 on: April 18, 2006 - 10:37:43 AM »
    I would find another center point more towards the rear and use two point insteads for your centerline of only one front point and coming 90 degrees which over the lenght of the car could be off if your 90 insn`t exact.
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    Jeff
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    Offline A110235

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    • '71 Challenger JH23G1B
    Re: Frame questions
    « Reply #14 on: April 18, 2006 - 11:21:29 AM »
    Ah, I see.  Thanks for the advice everyone!  I think that I just need some of the "factory measuremnts" to compare my stuff to.  I would really appreciate it if someone could e-mail me a pic out of that body manual.   :1zhelp:

    Kyle
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    Nashville, TN         Member since October 09, 2004
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