Author Topic: Are you still running your amp guage? (Read 7670 times)

ShelbyDogg · « **on:** April 20, 2006 - 11:21:09 PM »

So I just got a new Mopar Collector's Guide and it looks like Redline Gauge Works is selling a voltmeter to replace the AMP gauge due to fires. They have one that looks Stock, still marked "AMPS" but is really reading volts and they sell one with a bezel that has 8 to 12V markings. I'll have to get one now. I bypassed mine years ago when the wire fried at the bulkhead and added a voltmeter. Who here is still running their amp gauge and who has any fire, sparks on the carpet, smoke while driving stories to share? Rob

chevyconvert · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2006 - 11:58:00 PM »

I guess I am. The d / c...never seems to be in the middle.
Are these gauges really that bad?

FY1 RT SE · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2006 - 12:11:05 AM »

Never found a reason to do that modification. To understand the problem you need to understand the connecting systems within the wiring harness. The type 58 bulkhead connectors on their best day were rated at 37 amps, over time and the fact that most harness power leads were of a lesser gauge than what is stated on the wiring diagrams, add corrosion and deterioration they become way less than that. Add to that the ignition switch connection system that is rated even less and the deterioration of those connections occur even faster, the system is prone to failure. A way to combat these inefficiencies is to split the power lead through the bulkhead AND get rid of the lousy pin connections on the ignition switch by replacing it with a solid connection system such as a type 56 connector which is rated at a solid 50 amps and is not prone to the corrosion and arcing that the pin types are. I do this on all my harnesses, even new ones and never have had problems.

ROMI · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2006 - 04:47:26 AM »

You beat me to the POSTING punch. I read the article and started to panic. I'm running stock gauges and NOW I'm going to be thinking about this issue every time I start it up. I really want to hear what all you other EBODS are thinking or what you've done. Can you just disconnect it until you can get it "fixed"?

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2006 - 06:08:02 AM »

My bulkhead connector fried in the '80s. My amp gauge was bypassed a few years ago after I noticed it was almost always 3 lines toward the charge side, after I added a stereo, amp, halogen headlights, fuel injection computer, hi-amp alternator, etc.
In the article, they are talking about all of the current that goes through the AMP gauge. Basically ALL of it, in the stock-wiring configuration. If one of the terminals "SHORTS" against the "through the cluster hole" arcing could start that could end with the wiring, carpet, interior, whole car, burning to the ground. One guy�s car was saved because he acted quickly and always kept his ground battery post loose and pulled it.
(I never leave a clamp loose, If it ever comes loose on it's own, you lose your reference voltage and lose everything electrical in the car except the alternator. I found this out the hard way. I keep a 1/2 wrench in the console but how fast can you disconnect your battery if the interior is on fire? Never tested that.)

Rob

71 DEPUTY · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2006 - 07:08:08 AM »

usually all problems are due to poor terminals, corrosion or poor tightness of nuts. also under rated wire for todays use of sterios, better lighting etc.

when I restored the Deputy I rewired all the battery/alt wire up two sizes, routed the power wires through the bulkhead via a hole and good sized grommet- this does away with the bulkhead problems.

been driving over 3 years and every now and again I check the alt.meter- runs cool. but this is where most fires start due to loose nuts on the guage- so I double nutted them!!!!

Bullitt- · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2006 - 07:19:45 AM »

I saw a post on another sight suggesting that the wiring be replaced by heavier gauge & the bulkhead bypassed.

Any electrical engineers out there?

What if you left the stock wires in place but added a second heavy wire that bypassed the bulkhead & ammeter. Would you be safe & still have function?

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2006 - 09:43:16 AM »

I never really "BYPASSED the AMP METER"; both terminals are still bolted to the back. I simply added a 10-gauge wire, with a fusible link, to go straight from the alternator BAT terminal to the starter solenoid battery post. This basically centers the AMP gauge and it never moves again. The current draw is re-routed through this wire. If we had an electrical engineer look at the circuit, it'll take 3 years to complete the project, then it'll run out of money, our cars will catch fire! (Just kidding! Relax! It's just a joke! Throw that pocket protector away!)
Rob

chevyconvert · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2006 - 02:22:22 PM »

SO...if I have stock ralley gauges/wiring...IS this something that NEEDS to be addressed?

MEK-Dangerfield · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2006 - 03:00:39 PM »

Quote from: chevyconvert on April 21, 2006 - 02:22:22 PM

SO...if I have stock ralley gauges/wiring...IS this something that NEEDS to be addressed?

I'm in your boat too. I'm going by the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory. I have an after-market amp. but I don't have the power coming in on the original wires. I ran that all seperate because I knew it needed more current. I agree having so much current going thru the original amp meter is scary, but it sure shows you that your alternator is charging.

Mike

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2006 - 03:17:38 PM »

Basically, the full load is going through the AMP Gauge and the alternator is trying to keep it in the middle. How much heat do you think would go through it if you lost your alternator and that gauge went all the way to the left? That Amp gauge internal wire could be glowing a dull red no matter how tight and centered the mounting posts are. I'll dig up that link and post it.

Rob

EDIT:
Here is the link from 71DEPUTY'S post from JAN-27-2003:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

MEK-Dangerfield · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2006 - 03:32:16 PM »

Thanks Rob,
That was an interesting read.

Mike

FY1 RT SE · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2006 - 06:08:15 PM »

Quote from: chevyconvert on April 21, 2006 - 02:22:22 PM

SO...if I have stock ralley gauges/wiring...IS this something that NEEDS to be addressed?

Read my original post.

FY1 RT SE · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2006 - 06:44:55 PM »

Quote from: shelbydogg on April 21, 2006 - 06:08:02 AM

My bulkhead connector fried in the '80s. My amp guage was bypassed a few years ago after I noticed it was almost always 3 lines toward the charge side, after I added a stereo, amp, halogen headlights, fuel injection computer, hi-amp alternator, etc.
In the article, they are talking about all of the current that goes through the AMP guage. Basically ALL of it, in the stock wiring coniguration. If one of the terminals "SHORTS" against the "through the cluster hole" arcing could start that could end with the wiring, carpet, interior, whole car, burning to the ground. One guys car was saved because he acted quickly and always kept his ground battery post loose and pulled it.
(I never leave a clamp loose, If it ever comes loose on it's own, you lose your reference voltage and lose everything electrical in the car except the alternator. I found this out the hard way. I keep a 1/2 wrench in the console but how fast can you disconnect your battery if the interior is on fire? Never tested that.)
There is a link to a fix in the archives, somebody please find it.
Rob

I never said the bypass wasn�t okay, however I like to have a clean and factory looking bulkhead area not something with holes and taped connections. Also, several items were not mentioned in the article are, the burnt bulkhead is the result of not the cause of the problem, second just patching a wire without knowing the extent of damage to that wire is not a good solution, for example any strands damaged beyond the point of being useful weakens the power handling capabilities of that wire increasing resistance, power draw and heat, among other things. In addition, the problem with other connection points within the wiring system are not explored or explained including the original problem that caused the bulkhead to burn. I would rather spend less money improving the existing system by maintaining and correcting the weakness of the system instead of spending more to jury-rig it.

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2006 - 08:56:30 PM »

ALL of the car manufacturers no longer run this type of "weak link", the dreaded AMP GAUGE. Since some of us are upgrading the weaker sections of the original wiring and adding lots of accessories, we still never had anything to replace the one remaining piece, which always points back to the gauge. If it weren't for the "ORIGINAL DESIGN", almost all of us would still be using our original ignition wiring and original bulkhead connectors. Look at the back of a blower motor switch on an A/C car. Is that "original design" deforming and melting your connectors due to high current? RUN your A/C on HIGH and feel how hot the front switch handle gets. That's the �original design� and it was melting switches in the �70s. I'm going to add a relay circuit to that just like the relay circuit added for my halogen bulbs and driving lights. Those using brand new wiring, the wires and connectors are still original size and the problem will happen eventually, again and again. Does your cluster feel warm in front of your AMP gauge?
So FY1RTSE, bulkhead aside, are you still using your gauge? I, like you, drilled that hole and ran that wire for the stock bulhead look.

Chryco, do you think it would be okay for me to Scan the 2 page from MCG and send them up for the users that don't subscribe? I don't want to break any copywrite laws. The new article describes this problem

Rob

Author Topic: Are you still running your amp guage? (Read 7670 times)

ShelbyDogg

Are you still running your amp guage?

chevyconvert

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

FY1 RT SE

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

ROMI

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

ShelbyDogg

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

71 DEPUTY

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

Bullitt-

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

ShelbyDogg

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

chevyconvert

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

MEK-Dangerfield

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

ShelbyDogg

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

MEK-Dangerfield

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

FY1 RT SE

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

FY1 RT SE

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?

ShelbyDogg

Re: Are you still running your amp guage?