1970 Challenger R/T (V-code, 4-spd for sale)

[filmsurgeon]

To All,

Hello members.  Please excuse this rather lengthy posting.  A couple of weeks ago, I had responded to a topic regarding a '70 Challenger R/T for sale that I was interested in.  I have been looking for my dream challenger now for several months (It has been my dream for nearly 20 years).  Last night I found a listing on a collector car dealer's website for a 1970 Challenger R/T (JS23V0Bxxxxx).  I need help in deciding if this would be a car worth purchasing and finishing the restoration on.  The car has the original #s matching 440 6-pack motor, Hemi 4-speed tranny and Dana 60 rear end.  It was disassembled 25 years ago (according to the seller) and has been sitting since then.  The shell was restored and painted "Sublime Green" at that time.  It is reported to have 90% of all parts (either original or NOS).  The previous owner who started the restoration 25 years ago bought many new NOS parts back then when they were much more readily available.  The dealer/seller has posted on a site, 183 pictures of all parts and unibody condition.  It is reported to have 42,549 actual miles.  It has the original dash Vin plate but no fender tag or broadcast sheet.  They're saying that "only the easy to find items are missing".  So, the question is, does this sound like a good project car at an asking price of 55K?  I have never restored a vehicle but consider myself fairly inclined (mechanically speaking) and feel that this car would probably only need a fresh coat of paint (which I would have done at a reputable paint shop) and then reassembled.  I'm not certain, but judging by the description and photos of the vehicle and all the parts, I feel that this could be a solution to my life long dream of owning one of these truely classic muscle cars.  I am not interested in owning one of these cars as an investment or for resale.  I am merely looking to fullfill my dream of 'pride of ownership' and the enjoyment of driving one of these beauties.  However, this vehicle fully restored to near concourse level would no doubt be valued at a minimum of between 130 to 150K.  I was not considering a project car as I have heard that the costs to restore could far out weigh the value of the car once completed.  I have been looking for a restored vehicle of this muscle caliber but prices are out of my reach.  The opportunity to own and be a part of the restoration of this vehicle is very attractive (especially considering that the initial cost to purchase the car and the anticipated 40 to 50K maximum cost to finish the restoration would be much less than buying one already finished at probably 140K).

Your feedback would be much appreciated.  By the way, I am most inspired by the restoration work (and internet documentation) demonstrated on the ridesthatrock.com website.  Thanks.

[SlimeChallenger440]

Hello
I'm also a person that was just bought a car, (cuda Finished). My first question is if your willing to spend 55k on a car that in peices is why don't you look for a already finished 70 challenger r/t that isn't a V code car but a 383 or 440 r/t. Then just make a clone. I know its a clone but do the #'s really mean that much plus do you the strenght to drive a $140 000 car on the road?  In my opinion if this is your first restoration this isn't the thing for you but i could be wrong, If you want to see if you got the talent take off a door a car and put it in peices then put it together again. The part were ppl put more money into restoring a car then whats its worth is every true, My car was one of them, the last ower put $20 000 (cdn) over 10 years ago over the worth of the car. The big thing also with a build is the time it takes to finish a car, the money. There are cars out there for great price but its work and time alot of time, and research.
Thats my thoughts
Slimechallenger   

[Cuda Cody]

Only you know if it is right for you.  If it was me, I would pass on it at that price.  I would think it's worth maybe 35K to 40K tops.  I see a lot of them asking 130K plus when done, but asking is the key word.  I bought a '70 "V" code cuda (with a real shaker hood) 8 months ago in the exact same situation that you described above for much much less!  About 1/3 the price you are thinking about.   Now that I have spent more time & money finding "the easy to find" items and trying to figure out what is what, I would have been better off buying a complete car.  I will be in to it for more than it will be worth and "everything" was there with my car.  If it is your first restoration, please get a complete car.

[c1run1]

one just sold on ebay for 34k it was a car in my county , very similer to that one .

[filmsurgeon]

Thanks for the feedback SlimeChallenger440.

My first question is if your willing to spend 55k on a car that in peices is why don't you look for a already finished 70 challenger r/t that isn't a V code car but a 383 or 440 r/t.  Then just make a clone. I know its a clone but do the #'s really mean that much plus do you the strenght to drive a $140 000 car on the road?
  It's not so much that I would not settle for a clone or tribute car, but it's far more meaningful to me if the car is as close to original as possible, and an original 440 6 pack is the closest thing to an original Hemi I can get to.  These days people drive cars worth more than 140K in my neck of the country all the time (Los Angeles).  I am certainly feeling the frustrations of countless hours, day after day, night after night, week after week, month after month searching the internet for the right car at the right price.  It gets a bit depressing when you keep seeing the same cars over and over again.

Thank for the feedback C O D Y

Only you know if it is right for you.  If it was me, I would pass on it at that price.  I would think it's worth maybe 35K to 40K tops.
  My gut is telling me the same thing about the asking price.  40, maybe 45K would feel more comfortable.  But my heart wants to believe the claim that the car is 90% complete and that the reassembly will not be a nightmare.  Where did you find your 'Cuda project car and how long did you search?  The other problem I face is that I really don't have the space to handle the restoration/reassembly at my house.  I would need to store the car and parts elsewhere during the process or bring it to a restoration shop and have them do it.  I consider myself proficient at researching and detective work on the web.  This is how I expected to aquire any necessary parts to complete the car and the restoration.  Is this the wrong approach?  Speaking of project cars, this guy in Florida (realmusclecars.com : site doesn't work any more) had a '70 R/T Convertible V code 4-spd for sale (1 of 61 built that way).  The car looked like it suffered an engine fire at some time in its life and certainly needed a complete resto.  He said he wanted 185K as is.  Wassup wit dat?

Thanks for the feedback c1run1.

one just sold on ebay for 34k it was a car in my county , very similer to that one.
  Brick County?  I'm born and raised in Bergen County (in LA for 13 years now).  Saw that auction on eBay.  Was very tempted.  Am leary of eBay since I was disheartened after finding that the car I won the bidding on was significantly mis-represented.  Had to not complete the transaction (seller was OK with that and eventually relisted and sold the car).  In contrast to the 34K car.  The one I'm considering has the body already done, #s matching motor AND 4-spd tranny and Dana rear instead of 8.75 rear.  Not nearly as rare a car as the one sold on eBay, but equally valuable when restored due to 4-speed over an automatic car.

[n9671x2]

That does sound like a little bit of tall money for a car in a basket, however, it also sounds like a VERY cool car.  No matter how many "done" cars are out there, I am a HUGE believer that people are always looking for NICE projects.  I understand why you wouldn't want to post a link, but I think the price may or not be worth it depending on what is there for NOS.   As you probably already know, that stuff adds up quick, and if all the unique trim etc.. that really makes a car stand out is with the car NOS, it makes it alot more attractive.  You don't have to try and track it down, or pay for it later.  Having restored a few e bodies I can also say though that even with mechanical ability which I am sure you have, it sure is nice knowing what pretty much every nut and bolt is by looking at it and not trying to do a first restoration on a car you didn't take apart.

[Rev-It-Up]

Welcome to the board Filmsurgeon!  Thank you for your kind words about the RidesThatRock.com website.  My husband and I put that together to document the transformation and restoration of our Challenger.  Our Challenger was the first car we ever restored, so I have an inkling of what you're about to get into.  When I read your post, I thought of a couple of things.

1.  You say you don't have the space.  You will be amazed at the amount of space all the parts take up when they are separated from the body of the car.  We are in the process of working on my daughter's duster and parts take up a 2 car garage and a large work room.  If you decide to do this, you'll have to make a determined effort to log and track all your parts and know where they are at...which leads me to my next point.

2.  Tearing down the car (in our situation) was just as much a learning process as putting it back together.  Because we took it apart ourselves, we were able to learn, take pictures, bag and tag all the parts ourselves.  A LOT was learned in the process.  If you plan on taking on the restoration yourself as a first time restoration, you'll be a little bit at a disadvantage coming into it in the middle of the process.  I don't want to discourage you...just another thought.

3.  You mention there is no fender tag or broadcast sheet.  Make sure you check to make sure the numbers on the vin match the numbers on the engine, cowl and radiator support.  We've seen, many times, people trying to rebody these v-code cars.

It does sound like a lot of money for a car totally taken apart. I can hear your frustration in not being able to find your dream car, but we've seen many times here on the board, where people "settle" for a deal then the next week the real deal comes along. 

[Green Drop Top]

My advice would be to pay someone who is Mopar savy to go look at the car, evaluate it's condition, parts that are missing, quality of the older paint, and most importantly, it's pedigree concerning documentation, numbers matching status, etc. It will be money well spent even if you pass on it. Also, keep in mind, current market value for a 1970 Challenger 440+6 project like that is (IMO) lower than his asking price.

 If it's got any major issues with it's documentation, lack of a numbers matching drive train, or the lack of a fender tag AND  Broadcast Sheet I wouldn't even consider the car for half that amount.

 

[Street_Challenged73]

I totally agree with what Rev had to say.  The largest concern I would have too is tracking down all the parts that you will need in a pile of parts.  Whereas if it was a complete car the obvious missing items would really stand out.  The price is quite steep for a V-code '70 Challenger, but perhaps you can work something out with the owner if you do decide this is the car for you.  The car is worth a lot of money once done, but if you take your time and do quality work you will benefit both yourself and the hobby by fixing another one of these rare MoPars.  The rewards are satisfying the moment you take it down the road for the first time and when you begin showing it you can say you did it yourself.  That alone speaks for itself.   Best of luck with it and be sure to let us know what you decide to do.

[FM3V6M]

Hello Filmsurgeon and welcome.  I think you may be interested in my #' matching V-code 4spd, 4:10 DANA R/T.  I am going to put it up for sale shortly due to limited space, and something has to go (according to my wife), especially since I just purchased my dream car project (Black on black '71 4spd #'s 'Cuda) and need room, oh yeah, we're 2 months away from our first baby too!  The Challenger is a complete running/driving car, Hemi-Orange w/black int. only needs new paint & minor body.  Interior is mint with the exception of the dash-pad and the engine is balance/blueprinted with no shortcuts. Very presentable now but new paint would make it awsome.  Best of all I am local in LA (La Verne) and you can come see it for yourself. And YES it has the original fender tag, matching motor, etc.  I think this may be more to your taste that tackling a 'project' that may become a money pit to restore, especially one without a fender tag or build sheet.  If interested (or if anyone else is) you may PM me or call me outright (626)298-1263 Greg.

[Green Drop Top]

Hello Filmsurgeon and welcome.  I think you may be interested in my #' matching V-code 4spd, 4:10 DANA R/T.  I am going to put it up for sale shortly due to limited space, and something has to go (according to my wife), especially since I just purchased my dream car project (Black on black '71 4spd #'s 'Cuda) and need room, oh yeah, we're 2 months away from our first baby too!  The Challenger is a complete running/driving car, Hemi-Orange w/black int. only needs new paint & minor body.  Interior is mint with the exception of the dash-pad and the engine is balance/blueprinted with no shortcuts. Very presentable now but new paint would make it awsome.  Best of all I am local in LA (La Verne) and you can come see it for yourself. And YES it has the original fender tag, matching motor, etc.  I think this may be more to your taste that tackling a 'project' that may become a money pit to restore, especially one without a fender tag or build sheet.  If interested (or if anyone else is) you may PM me or call me outright (626)298-1263 Greg.

Now THAT car I'd consider if the price is inline 

[Cuda Cody]

See, Rev was right... it didn't even take a week!