Author Topic: starting problem (Read 2309 times)

73440cuda · « **on:** June 12, 2006 - 09:54:33 AM »

I'm having a problem with, I think is a voltage drop when trying to start my car. Right after I charged my battery and turned my key to run, my volt meter read 12V. When I turned it to start the voltage immediately dropped to 10V, and the motor turned very slowly. If it's hot and I shut it off, it doesn't have enough power to turn the starter until it cools down, and then it will turn very slow, but enough to start the car. I have a mini stater that's wrapped in a heat blanket, but I'm not so sure it's a heat problem, but a voltage problem.

ChallengerHK · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2006 - 12:00:37 PM »

Is there anything that makes you think "current" vs. "heat", or is that a hunch? It sure sounds like every overheated-starter-with-windings-rubbing-the-case that I've ever dealt with.

If it is current...maybe a bad cell in the battery. That should account for about a 2V drop in potential. If the plates are phosphated in one cell that cell might hold a surface charge (which would give you a 12V reading prior to trying to start), but without a deep charge the cell would deplete almost immediately, and if it's bad enough it might suck up the charge from other cells as well.

73440cuda · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2006 - 07:17:16 PM »

Heat could also be a problem, but even when it's cold it turns slow, but will start. It does not turn like it normally should. The mini starter should spin like crazy. The voltmeter says it charging when the car is running. I'm at a loss as to what the cause is.

matt63 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2006 - 07:29:46 PM »

I would check the voltage at the battery with a multimeter to begin with. 12V is too low. It should be closer to 13 V.

tactransman · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2006 - 07:45:19 PM »

Do you have another known "good" battery you can stick in it just to test it?

Challenger6pak · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2006 - 07:55:56 PM »

I would check the amperage draw on the starter. I also had a similar problem which ended up being corroded connections at the starter. Are you running headers or manifolds?

73440cuda · « **Reply #6 on:** June 13, 2006 - 10:03:10 AM »

I'm running a old set of headers.

Challenger6pak · « **Reply #7 on:** June 13, 2006 - 11:49:51 AM »

It sounds like a starter problem to me. You can take the starter to many parts houses and they can test the amperage draw. Your battery also can be tested to see what load it can handle. If either part is off it will cause your problem. With headers and a heat blanket you should be OK as far as heat goes. A quick check you can do before you take any parts off is jump the starter at the solenoid on the inner fender. It is possible something is wrong there. If it cranks better when you jump the connections you can replace the solenoid.

Autophile · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2006 - 12:13:35 PM »

This sounds like the same type of problem that my Cuda currently suffers from. Difficulty with hot starting. I believe it is based on a bad battery ground, but I have not quite fixed the problem yet. Note, my Cuda had the problem two starters (currently small hi-torque guy) and two batteries ago.

Challenger6pak · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2006 - 05:05:12 PM »

Quote from: Autophile on June 13, 2006 - 12:13:35 PM

This sounds like the same type of problem that my Cuda currently suffers from. Difficulty with hot starting. I believe it is based on a bad battery ground, but I have not quite fixed the problem yet.

Challenger6pak · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2006 - 05:07:42 PM »

Good point. Is there a ground strap from the firewall or chasis to the motor?

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2006 - 05:15:39 PM »

the negative battery cable should go to the engine with at least 1 strap from the engine to the chassis , the factory negative cable has a pig tail to the radwall behind the headlights that often gets removed with new battery cables

Autophile · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2006 - 11:53:49 PM »

Quote from: Challenger6pak on June 13, 2006 - 05:07:42 PM

Good point. Is there a ground strap from the firewall or chasis to the motor?

Yes, I installed a fat new ground cable from my block (bare metal) to the frame (bare metal). My battery is in the trunk. My car didn't used to have this problem. However, it sat for a couple years without running... the problem grew out of that idle period.

I did attack this problem once before about a year ago. I found lots of green corrosion at the point of my battery ground at the frame. I replaced the battery cables with fat gauge stuff, heat shrinked ends, etc. The problem went away for a while, apparently, but it has come back. I guess my ground point has corroded again. Maybe my next approach should be to clean the contact point at the frame, secure the cable real good and then cover it with grease. Maybe this weekend I'll get back under there and check it out, then report back.

I understand how frustrating this problem can be.

************************
Update: I checked my battery ground cable connection at the frame, and it was a little bit loose but it had no corrosion. I scuffed up the surfaces, installed a star washer, and cranked the ground bolt down. I brought the car up to summer driving temperatures, turned it off, then after a 5 minute delay I was able to restart it. That was promising, although there was still a little delay in the cranking speed. Hmmm. Either my battery is a little tired from those underdriven March pulleys, or the starting problem is still there. I am thinking about maybe installing one of those small Odyssey batteries (like this one: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1200mjt.htm) back up in the engine compartment.

Challenger6pak · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2006 - 05:37:24 AM »

When you run the battery in the trunk you will need multiple grounds. This is due to the fact that e-bodys technically do not have a frame. If you have frame connectors this problem is lessened. You need a ground from the battery to the rear frame. Make it as close to the bumper as reasonable. You don't need it getting hot, rare, but can happen, by your gas tank. When I have had a battery in the trunk without frame connectors I have run a cable, against the floor, from the rear frame to the front frame for ground. I also only run the ground on one side of the car and voltage on the other side of the car. It may not be necessary to do it this way, but I have not lost a car yet due to a fire. Another thing I have done is to run much larger cable when the battery is in the trunk. This lessons resistance caused by a long travel from the source. Petroleum jelly is better to use to block corrosion than grease in an electrical situation.

Autophile · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2007 - 05:52:19 PM »

I just wanted to give an update on my starting issue. I recently installed a new MSD Digital 6 Plus ignition box with the 20� start retard function activated. Now, so far anyway, my car seems to have no problem starting when it is hot. I don't know if I mentioned that I have my timing locked at 35� advanced, which is why the start retard was a helpful feature. The mystery is still not solved IMO though, because I locked my timing a couple years before the starting problem started though...

Author Topic: starting problem (Read 2309 times)

73440cuda

starting problem

ChallengerHK

Re: starting problem

73440cuda

Re: starting problem

matt63

Re: starting problem

tactransman

Re: starting problem

Challenger6pak

Re: starting problem

73440cuda

Re: starting problem

Challenger6pak

Re: starting problem

Autophile

Re: starting problem

Challenger6pak

Re: starting problem

Challenger6pak

Re: starting problem

Chryco Psycho

Re: starting problem

Autophile

Re: starting problem

Challenger6pak

Re: starting problem

Autophile

Re: starting problem