Author Topic: Help me Diagnose Problem...  (Read 2279 times)

Offline moper

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Re: Help me Diagnose Problem...
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2006 - 06:37:53 AM »
"I think that even you will agree that it is kind of shady when after asking repeatedly for receipts, cam card, and specific info like "how far did you mill the heads?" and getting nothing in return is kind of a raw deal. 

Now I admit that if i had asked the right questions or made the correct request i would end up a happier man.  This is why i am quite vocal when folks ask questions on these boards in regards to similar circumstances that i found myself in.  My advice has always been...listen to the advice given on these boards and strive to understand what you are trying to do.  Don't be like me and end up with a fantastic looking car that can barely make it down the block.  "

The shop that does my work, gives a complete printout of parts used (with part numbers), compression ratio, CC of the chambers, the works. The customer gets the paperwork from all the parts. There is no other way to do it without some feeling of uneasyness. And it means if anything isnt what it's supposed to be, you can rerference back and get the replacement stuff first shot..(like pushrod lengths, or head gasket thicknesses). The biggest problem I find is, istead of asking for the "whys" most people ask the "what do I do" thing. any engineer will tell you..truths are truths, opinions are opinions.

A good example...The intake milling and install. My math is for the cylinder head deck surface (.010 trimmed), and the block's deck surface (.010 trimmed), per cylinder bank. So, if it were me, I'd be looking to mill about .025" off each side of the intake itself. Facts are: it takes .012" of milling on the intake or intake flange of the head to correct the alignment changes the std cleanup mill of .010 creates. If you milled the block too, it takes more, but by the same ratio. Once that's done, the intake should drop in place (with no gasket) and the holes for the bolts should be clearly visible, and very slightly offset towards the top of the intake's holes. That also means the ports are in alignment, especially along the roof, where most of the flow is. Fact: you must have a gasket between the intake and heads. Mopar BB needs a valley pan as part of that. The steel valley pans are designed to crush when torqued, sealing the ports and valley from the outside world. Fact: all steel valley pans were first used only with iron intakes and heads. With aluminum intakes and heads, the steel pan/gasket by itself has a good cahnce of developing a leak. That's because the iron and aluminum components move differently, with temperatue and load changes. Fact: Mopar found this out, when the first aluminum 6bbl intakes were used on the 69 1/2 RR/Bee cars. (Hemis and Max wedges dont count, because the intake itself is the valley cover, and they use a fiber type gasket...) They began having problems with the 6bbl cars and loose/leaking intake valley pan/gaskets. The fix was a very thin (like .010" thick) paper gasket, used on top of the valley pan, where the aluminum sealed on the pan. No more leaks. Fel Pro also picked up on this, and if I recall, they did years ago include the thin paper gaskets with the "performance line" of intake valley pans. Now, when you buy the performance one, it comes with a thicker material (like .030") and in many cases, using this paper with the valley pan gives one fits of rage because the holes (and ports) dont line up.. ("My New Intake Wont Fit!!" posts) Fact: RTV is not fuel resistant, and nowhere on the package does it say it will survive fuel exposure.

Now the opinion part... opinions are based on personnal experiences. I dont like to debate experiences, because I've seen too much that engineering wise should never work, work fine. My friends say I'm conservative because I tend to go with engineers' feelings (Dad is a retired one) on what is "right" or not. It has kept me safe in some situations where the result could have been different had I not done something the "right way".
Opinion: I found not using the paper gaskets on aluminum can be done with long term success by using a thin skim coat of Ultra Grey or "The Right Stuff" around each port openning. You shouldnt see it squish out..You really dont use a lot. But, there are many who dont do it that way. To each his own. 

As far as the rockers and pushrods...If you lay the dipstick along the rocker stands, you can get the pushrods very close to where they need to be to tighten down the shafts. Otherwise, the cams' broken in, just put it all together, stick some paper towels down the ports, and lay some paper in the valley to catch the debris from cleaning. There can be NO oil on the gasket surfaces. I call it surgically clean. Not even from your fingers, otherwise, it will leak. I glue my valve cover gaskets (I like the cork Fel Pros) to the covers with weatherstrip adhesive. same surgically clean surfaces, and no sealer should be used on the head to valve cover gasket surface. The VC gaskets on my Cuda are 8 years old, and I adjust the valves twice a year, sometimes more a the track. No leaks. They come off with the covers.
Hope some of this helps at least. :aarg:




Offline 71383bee

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Re: Help me Diagnose Problem...
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2006 - 08:59:18 AM »
moper,

Thank you for your honest and intricate description.  I myself am a Civil Engineer and believe me I know all too well about separating fact from opinion. 

I would love to have had the info you recieve from your builder.  It would have helped me out so much with my issues.  Especially now that i have a better understanding of what's going on.  Too often in life I think we let our desires get ahead of our brains. 

In regards to my situation.  Does the fact that i am using the stock style steel shim head gaskets make a difference in the milling calcs?  I just want to get it right and send it to a capable shop that will mill the correct amount.

Thanks for the advice.
71 - 383 FC7 Super Bee