cooling the engine down

Author Topic: cooling the engine down  (Read 16341 times)

Offline Carlwalski

  • C-C.com Expert
  • ********
  • Posts: 20672
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2006 - 10:57:22 PM »


My bad lads, I was wrong. I for some reason had the A/C and heater mixed up as one unit.  :banghead:
With the heater on it helps cool the engine but, as stated, A/C puts extra strain on the engine.



1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60




Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2006 - 05:39:52 PM »
Its Ok NZ,you are entitled to a mistake once in a while,lol.I though maybe "Down Under" Things worked in opposite,like water running down a drain backwards,lol.But of course you are not an Aussie but a Kiwi,right?As soon as you learn how to walk on water,let us all know how :bigsmile:
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3

Offline Carlwalski

  • C-C.com Expert
  • ********
  • Posts: 20672
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2006 - 06:32:59 PM »
Its Ok NZ,you are entitled to a mistake once in a while,lol.I though maybe "Down Under" Things worked in opposite,like water running down a drain backwards,lol.But of course you are not an Aussie but a Kiwi,right?As soon as you learn how to walk on water,let us all know how :bigsmile:



LOL Thanks.  :icon16: I'm working on the water thing, I have a good teacher, hard to please at times but his skills and efforts are (in the end) very worth while, perhaps you've seen this guy before...................




































































1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
White, License Plate, 0A-5599
540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2006 - 11:41:20 AM »
Oh Grasshoppa,Can You Snatch The Pebble From My Hand?
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3

Offline basement

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 270
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2006 - 07:51:04 AM »
Keeping the thermostat in provides a certain amount of system pressure. This 'back pressure' helps to keep all of the jackets and channels full of collant. With no back pressure the system is allowed to free flow, and possibly allowing pockets to form.

Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2006 - 09:56:27 AM »
good point :iagree:
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3

Offline moper

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2368
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2006 - 11:39:54 AM »
Some things to ponder...
  Most guys install std parts store thermostats. These are the flat discs, with a wax pellet and about a nickel sized hole that opens approximately 1/4". It doesnt flow mutch, and there is very little force "pulling" the center open. At highway speeds (rpms of 3K or higher) the flow from the water pump can be strong enough to push the T-stat closed. There are units called "balanced" thermostats. They are always brass, come in 160, 180, and 195°, and use a tapered larger diameter passage and plug. They are not susceptable to the pressure closing, and will stay open at high rpm. They also have more flow area for the coolant to move thru, so it's not as great a restriction.
  Circle track racers dont use T stats for that reason, but they do use restrictors. Unlimited flow can lead to overheating of components even tho the coolant stays cool. There is not sufficient time for it to pick up heat from the iron, so hot spots develop. The size of the restriction depends on your cooling system performance, and will need experimentation to get "the right one" for you should you choose that route.
  The A/C condensor takes hot gas, and cools it to a liquid. The reason this works is heat is removed form it, and transferred to the air, which then runs right thru the radiator. So, it effectively heats up the air that has then to remove the higher heat from the radiator. It makes the radiator work harder to do the same job. (I know, you already figured that out...lol)
  The electric fans can move the air most cars need to keep cool with efficient radiators. Brass fins and 2 cores are not very efficient. So, in some cases, the electrics cant move enough. Also, I see in your picture...There is more than 40% of the flow area thru the std core radiator is blocked by your shroud. A simple fix is to get some lightweight rubber, cut some sqaure holes about 2"x4" in the solid sections, and screw the rubber to the shroud, overhanging the holes you cut. When you're bombing down the road, the air pressure will force the flaps to open, letting air thru easilly, and when you're stopped and the fans are on, the flaps will seal up, and keep the limited flow where it needs to be. I saw this on a Griffin setup..works great.

Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2006 - 09:30:23 PM »
A simple fix is to get some lightweight rubber, cut some sqaure holes about 2"x4" in the solid sections, and screw the rubber to the shroud, overhanging the holes you cut. When you're bombing down the road, the air pressure will force the flaps to open, letting air thru easilly, and when you're stopped and the fans are on, the flaps will seal up, and keep the limited flow where it needs to be. I saw this on a Griffin setup..works great.
:useless:
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3

Offline moper

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2368
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2006 - 05:29:33 AM »
I thought I described it fairly well..lol. You have no imagination, and I have no digital camera that interfaces with my new P/C...l :bigsmile: All they look like are little rubber squares on the shroud  :lol2:

Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2006 - 07:52:53 AM »
You did,I just felt like using that icon,havent used it in a while:)
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3

Offline 67Vette427

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 586
  • My other car is not a Rambler
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2006 - 10:55:48 AM »
Good info Moper  :)
1 of 1 Mr Norm's T/A/ 2015 Hellcat, sublime/ 13 Power Wagon

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2006 - 02:24:36 AM »
Some things to ponder...
  Most guys install std parts store thermostats. These are the flat discs, with a wax pellet and about a nickel sized hole that opens approximately 1/4". It doesnt flow mutch, and there is very little force "pulling" the center open. At highway speeds (rpms of 3K or higher) the flow from the water pump can be strong enough to push the T-stat closed. There are units called "balanced" thermostats. They are always brass, come in 160, 180, and 195°, and use a tapered larger diameter passage and plug. They are not susceptable to the pressure closing, and will stay open at high rpm. They also have more flow area for the coolant to move thru, so it's not as great a restriction.


Moper, is this a very common issue with cars running low gears on highways? I've had a cruising speed issue with my motor heating up, it is electric fan cooled with a full shroud. i just today put flaps on the shroud with no change in temp. still creeps up to about 205* while on the freeway. It should do better, even though it is some 105* outside. It's an aluminum radiator, it should be doing better than it is. I was about out of ideas until i read this. I'm running just a plain replacement 160* stat (usually the summer i run a 160, fan doesnt come on until 180*. still gets up to temp just fine) anyway, i'm curious figuring on the highway i atleast turn a consistant 3,300rpm with my 3.91s, usually a little more. I've looked and most 'high-flow' t-stats are also advertised as balanced. Should this be something i should try? I am running a anti-caviation plate on a stock pump which might bump the pressure up a tad on the thermostat. I think your onto something here as far as my issue is concerned  :pullinghair:

Thanks  :cooldancing:
« Last Edit: July 13, 2006 - 02:26:14 AM by GoodysGotACUDA »
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2006 - 08:09:47 AM »
Sorry to interject here:_
The 160 stat is too cold for your engine,especially in a hot climate,you need to experiment with higher temp stats.The 160 is opening too soon to cool your engine properly and not the only problem.I would probably try the 180 than the 195 and sorry for repeating myself but on the flange of the Thermo drill 2 opposing 1/8" holes in the thermo,it really does help.Like i also stated before an electric fan cannot pull the same cfm's as a clutch fan,the motor would be way too big to fit on the rad to spin the blade pitch of a clitch fan,you can add more fans but in reality if you had 5 fans at 1200cfm,you would still be pulling 1200 cfm,just in more places
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2006 - 10:06:49 AM »
Sorry to interject here:_
The 160 stat is too cold for your engine,especially in a hot climate,you need to experiment with higher temp stats.The 160 is opening too soon to cool your engine properly and not the only problem.I would probably try the 180 than the 195 and sorry for repeating myself but on the flange of the Thermo drill 2 opposing 1/8" holes in the thermo,it really does help.Like i also stated before an electric fan cannot pull the same cfm's as a clutch fan,the motor would be way too big to fit on the rad to spin the blade pitch of a clitch fan,you can add more fans but in reality if you had 5 fans at 1200cfm,you would still be pulling 1200 cfm,just in more places

Ok, well if i go with one of these 'balanced' t-stats i'll go 180. But can i ask how it can open too soon to cool it? Once its open its open, just like a 180 would be open. Or am i mistaken? Sorry, just trying to understand. :clueless:
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

Offline moparnut

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
  • Nutin like a nice Piece of Hickory"Clint Eastwood
    • My Photo's
Re: cooling the engine down
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2006 - 05:53:54 PM »
You are right,once open it will stay open,the different temps "should"keep the engine at or close to the temp rating on the thermo,BUT a 160 will have a different flow rate than a 180,either flowing the coolant thru the Rad too slow or too fast.A fan without the right cfm will compound the issue.
70 Barracuda Gran Coupe,383-4bbl,# Match
2012 Subaru Forester
70 D100 Adventurer 383 pickup
02 F250 S'cab Powerstroke 7.3 4x4 6 speed Manual
06 Honda VTX1800S Spec 3