steering off center after reassembly

[miketyler]

the car is at the paint shop but the steering is still an issue. Its not going to be a matter of simply reclocking the steering wheel. There is more travel one way than the other. Also, the LH turn signal will cancel immediately coming out of a turn where the RH turn signal wont cancel at all when unwinding from a turn.

My steering coupler would only go on the input shaft one way, indexed by the master spline. I hate to readjust the tie rods but if i cant find anything else I guess thats where I'm going.  With the slack in the steering box, am probably going to buy a rebuilt box and ck it all again when I replace the current box. 

[ShelbyDogg]

I think that you should fix your center problem before you change your box.  If it was straight before you took it apart, it should be straight if you didn't break any adjustments.  Could you have your center steeriing link on backwards, upside down, or flipped over.  Look at another car to compare or I'll take a pic and send it up.


Going to Vegas Sat till Tuesday, then leave for the Mopar Nats on Thusday WOOHOO!
Rob

[ROMI]

Mike, I really want to help, not that I'm an expert or anything and Chryco certainly knows more than I'll ever know but I spent a month and 3 steering gear boxes recently getting mine straight, so if I can, I'll tell you anything that I learned.
My coupling must have been modified (it's on so I can't check now) because I could slip it on to the worm shaft in any position I wanted to. You already know that your splines are still good though right?
On mine, someone before me had installed the coupling on the steering column upside down. When you placed my steering wheel straight, the index on the coupling was upside down so the person installing made the mistake of turning the worm shaft 1/2 turn to match the straight steering wheel then put everything else together. That resulted in 1/2 turn being taken away from a right turn and added to a left turn. Then they adjusted the tie rod ends to put the wheels straight.
How I fixed it was to flip the coupling over (housing only since it's symetrical) then I made sure that the index on the worm shaft was at 12:00 and slipped the coupling on. With mine I also had to make sure the coulmn was straight because it would go on in any position.  (This was probably true because the previous install ran into the problem and couldn't figure it out so he filed the index off the coupling.) But even with the index, the coupling might be on the column upside down and with the wheel straight would put the index at 6:00 which would make your install 1/2 turn off.
One way to kind of double check is to look at your tie rod ends too.  I would think that what you describe would require you to have one side almost all the way in and the other side all the way out.
Oh, I forgot (I doubt that this is your issue). Did you count the revolutions of the worm shaft before you put the column on?  The gear rotates 3.5 turns so the middle is 1.75 turns from either stop.  If it was a full revolution off then you would hardly have ANY turn in one direction, that's why I doubt that you have this problem.
I don't know if this helps but I'll keep reading, and for now I'll keep my fingers from typing any more unless I read a specific question
Good Luck Mike.

[miketyler]

Thanks guys for sticking with me on this one. I am 99% sure that all my components would only slip on one way; steering coupler, steering shaft, and crush can. I never had the pitman arm off.

The car still is a bit squirrely to drive with the slack in the wheel. The cross shaft nut does little to improve this and only adds friction to the movement. The car still has the tendancy to wander left and right and you constantly have to correct this.

Although I have a geometry or clocking problem somewhere, I am compelled to replace this box becuse it just doesnt seem safe. When I do this I will have to remove the coupling again and can inspect more closely. I may indeed have the tie rod link flipped or backwards but I tryed installing it a couple of different ways and am pretty sure it is on right. It has to go thru thru the headers and there is little clearance for it to go any other way.       

[ShelbyDogg]

For now, I would check "center" like Romi's problem, by popping off the pitman arm at the center link. Turn the wheel both ways, counting revs till you find the exact center. is your wheel straight up?    Now point your wheels straight ahead and see if the hole lines up at the pitman arm.  Which way is it off?


The cancelling turn signal is not working because the right (top) signal release arm is broken off on your trun  signal assembly. A pin comes around and unlocks the "catch" that locked the turn signal arm up or down. Putting on cheap steering wheel adapters usually breaks these tabs off.  You have to pull the wheel to see the broken part and see the pin. The good thing is that AUTOZONE sells just that top replacement piece in their HELP section of stuff. You don't have to buy the complete turn signal-emergency flasher assembly anymore.

Rob

[miketyler]

Yup, will do that although I never had the pitman arm off. For the life of me I dont remember the steering being displaced for the short time I had it before the tear down

As for the turn signal issue, I believe its going to be related to the non-center issue. Also, I think I had it backwards, the LH is the one that doesnt seem to cancel and the right cancels immediately. With the wheel clocked at 1:00 the wheel probably doesn't go far enough left to make the cancel switch. Likewise, its proximity to the right is much closer and the signal cancels immediately. I'm pretty sure the switch is good but will have to ck for sure when I get the car back.

As reported earlier, I have quite a bit of slop in the current box. I would like to have this centering issue resolved so the replacement goes easier   

[Chryco Psycho]

the pitman arm will ONLY fit in one position , so don`t bother removing it , the way to do this is to center the steering box First , now what position is the wheel in ? if it is closer to 12 o-clock than 6 o-clock you just need to adjust the tie rod lenght , if it is closer to 6 o-clock you need to pull the column out of the coupler & rotate the steering wheel 180* & adjsut ther tie rods to center the wheel , this is assuming the tie rods are close to equal lenght now
 the extra play in the steering Has to be in the coupler , the little shoe blocks inside the coupler can go in 2 ways , the spring that holds the shoes has to be to one side of the shaft to be correct not under the end of the shaft so you need to pull that anyway & get the shoes in correctly

[miketyler]

I would have been surprised if the pitman arm wasnt keyed but thanks for confirming that and saving me the trouble CP. My steering wheel is clocked at 1:00 when the wheels are straight ahead. I will ck the tie rod length when I get the car back next week.

I have the coupler on right, with a rebuild kit. Been there, done that with some help from you and 4C. Maybe you recall the thread?

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=13578.0

Once I get the car back, I'll remove the coupler and confirm that the slack is in the box itself before I do anything. If I move the input shaft and get no deflection from the pitman arm I think that would eliminate any doubt right? Several people commment on having some slack in their steering; I really feel like mine is excessive. Even the slightest free movement at the input shaft would be amplified at the steering whel end especially if you are using the large dia original steering wheel.   

[Bullitt-]

Mike, reading your last post made me think this, Did you have your steering wheel off during this process? If so is it physically possible to re-install it improperly? I remember there are 3-screws but I don't remember if there is anything that keys it to a certain orientation. 

[422STROKER]

I think the crush can has splines no?  It has been a while since I pulled one off though.

Tom

[Chryco Psycho]

the crush can has a master spline as well & a tab at the top so the wheel can only go on one way
 if you are at 1 o-clock you just need a minor adjustment of the ties rods to bring it back to the 12 o-clock position
 yes , if you rotate the steering column with no movement of the pitman arm the steering box is the problem 

[gomopar440]

Have you measured the left and right tie rods to see if they're the same legnth? If you just replaced them recently you may have received an incorrect part for your application.

[Bullitt-]

Re: tie rods even if you changed nothing if you by chance swapped sides & one was longer, just took mine off & the right was extended about 1/4" farther so a swap would net 1/2" change.                        What I can't fathom is how any of this could affect the turn signals soooo dramaticly. 

[Chryco Psycho]

what is up with the turns signals ?

[Bullitt-]

As for the turn signal issue, I believe its going to be related to the non-center issue. Also, I think I had it backwards, the LH is the one that doesnt seem to cancel and the right cancels immediately. With the wheel clocked at 1:00 the wheel probably doesn't go far enough left to make the cancel switch. Likewise, its proximity to the right is much closer and the signal cancels immediately. I'm pretty sure the switch is good but will have to ck for sure when I get the car back.

As reported earlier, I have quite a bit of slop in the current box. I would like to have this centering issue resolved so the replacement goes easier  

the car is at the paint shop but the steering is still an issue. Its not going to be a matter of simply reclocking the steering wheel. There is more travel one way than the other. Also, the LH turn signal will cancel immediately coming out of a turn where the RH turn signal wont cancel at all when unwinding from a turn.

My steering coupler would only go on the input shaft one way, indexed by the master spline. I hate to readjust the tie rods but if i cant find anything else I guess thats where I'm going.  With the slack in the steering box, am probably going to buy a rebuilt box and ck it all again when I replace the current box.