New Heads?

Author Topic: New Heads?  (Read 2478 times)

Offline JRoss22

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New Heads?
« on: July 17, 2006 - 11:05:55 PM »
I am looking to get new heads for my Challenger. It is a 340 4bbl with a edelbrock performer series 600 cfm carb. I am wondering which heads I should go with that would be resonable cost wise and performance wise for me? I think I can get a 40% discount through my work on Mopar parts but I dont know if I should go that path or opt for aftermarket heads which can perform better. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. :2thumbs:




Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006 - 12:49:13 AM »
I am looking to get new heads for my Challenger. It is a 340 4bbl with a edelbrock performer series 600 cfm carb. I am wondering which heads I should go with that would be resonable cost wise and performance wise for me? I think I can get a 40% discount through my work on Mopar parts but I dont know if I should go that path or opt for aftermarket heads which can perform better. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. :2thumbs:

Can you get 40% off say....Edelbrock? If so, i'd jump on that. What heads are currently on there? Upgrading the intake as well? You'd probably see a bigger gain from a intake/cam swap over just heads imo. Heads will only flow as much as the cam and intake lets them. just my .02cents
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006 - 02:39:15 AM »
probably the best bang for the $$ WOULD BE 308 castings ported
even @ 40% off the W2 heads are expensive , they are an excellent head but you need special rockers made by Jesel & a unique intake as well

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Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006 - 10:44:19 AM »
probably the best bang for the $$ WOULD BE 308 castings ported
even @ 40% off the W2 heads are expensive , they are an excellent head but you need special rockers made by Jesel & a unique intake as well

and header adapters/headers, and valve covers too? im not sure on the v/c's
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Offline Killer_Mopar

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006 - 10:50:03 AM »
The magnum R/T heads would be nice but you will have to get a set of stud mounted rockers, pushrods, and valve covers. Your cheapest and probably best route would be to get the set of 308s like CP said....
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Offline ESGEE

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006 - 04:41:46 PM »
 :popcorn:
70 Challenger RT/SE(Looking for 383 Magnum N0B196875)
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2006 - 12:54:18 AM »
the W2 heads I had last year took both header types , W2 & standard , they use stock valve covers

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Offline moper

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006 - 05:35:01 AM »
What do you do with the car? Show? Are you looking for some "bling"? Cruise it? Drag or street race it? What else is done to the engine performance wise? gearing in the rear, and trans type? What kind of $$ do you have for the swap?
Until all that is known, your just tossing out ideas that may not apply.
If this is a showcar/driver, and the horsepower is kept sane, say a max of 400, there are much less $$ heads that can do what you need them to. Some MP, some factory, some not. If it's a stock 340, and you are keeping the power to 400ish, with a factory rebuild or original pistons, I'd go with a set of Magnums. The R/T heads may give up some torque, and if you have 3.23s, A/C, and a 4sp it may make the car feel sluggish cruising around town. If you need more punch, the Edelbrock RPMs would be a good choice, but they show $$ in the engine. If you street race it, you can get similar performance from ported iron like Chryco said. The next step up IMO is the W2s. They are a race oriented head, so 3.23s and a mild cam dont match well with them. So, what's your plans for this car?

Offline JRoss22

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006 - 07:32:11 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback... My plans for the car are a weekend cruiser and something I can take to the local strip every so often.... Deff never a street racer though as its basically pointless to street race to many lifes to put in danger so keep it at the track... But i think I am going to go with the edelbrock RPM and an edelbrock intake.

Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006 - 12:55:20 PM »
I love Edelbrock. The R&D that goes in their stuff is unmatched.  Get theirs.
Rob

3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

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http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0


Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2006 - 01:43:29 PM »
I love Edelbrock. The R&D that goes in their stuff is unmatched.  Get theirs.
Really ????, I didn`t know they did R&D ????
there combustion chamber shape is aweful on the big block heads , the valves are not even in stock position & can hit pistions even with the valve reliefs because they don`t line up  & the rockers don`t even align properly over the valve tip , no T spec ont he alum & the core shift in some of the castings I have seen is terrible
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006 - 11:56:44 PM by Chryco Psycho »

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Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2006 - 02:33:49 PM »
Chryco,
I myself haven't purchased their heads but a friend of mine has them on a 440 and He has so much power. I haven't seen a small block set yet, but you must have purchased a set and measured them yourself.  Thanks for the info.  I'll pass it on to Edelbrock and see what they say.

Rob
Rob

3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

My Pace Car restoration thread:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0


Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2006 - 11:58:03 PM »
a friend bought a set of the Bolt on big block heads & it took over 4months to get all the issues sorted out & get them bolted on

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Offline moper

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2006 - 06:13:00 AM »
I've had 2 sets of big block, 3 sets of small block, Indy SR and -1s, and MP products (Stage VIs). I've also been privy to builds using TFS, Brodix, Pro Action, and Dart on various "offbrands". I'd say overall, the best castings are factory ones. MP is not factory. On a scale of 1-10...
Edelbrock rarely has casting flaws, but they do occur. Their valve jobs are average, the exh guides typically are too tight on a few on each head. The valve springs are "rated to .600 lift" but dont have the open pressures most modern cams need. I've also seen a Pontiac set get shipped with no inner spring on 2 cylinders. The chamber is smaller, but like Chrco says, isnt a "high swirl or tumble inducing design. It's just smaller, with the plug near the exh valve. These are meant as an option other than factory castings, so maybe that's why. I havent seen them yet, but the new BB Victors have a better chamber, can flow lots more air, and come with no valve springs, so I'd say Edelbrock is listening to the shops' feedback in that regard.  Edelbrock - 8 out of 10
Indy has had various line changes since the first MW port -1s were released. They have a design for almost everything size wise. But, they suffer from the same issues the others have. typically, Indy seats are out of round. Not all, but most. The same guide issues, and quality control issues are there. Any machine work they do should be scrutinized closely. I've also found aluminum chips over 1/4" in size lodged in the assembly oil inside the port of "ready to run" heads. And yes..the intake port, it would have been ingested if I hadnt taken them apart and seen it. The chambers are more modern and smaller, and have the same plug near the exh valve. Indy is very difficult to talk to unless you are paying them large amounts, and letting them design and do everything. (ego brat mindset) But the heads are a decent bigger alternative. Indy - 7 ot of 10
MP heads have a ton of engineering behind them. Modern chambers, correctly shapoed and sized ports, and in some cases, a good supply of support parts if needed. Teh castings are some of the worst you'll find. Porosity, misaligned cores, lots of uglies. The W5 heads were a huge mess because of that, and the early Stage VIs too. The blocks get no better. Apparently they cant get a good foundry. Teh machining on them is equally miserable. Chamber sizes are way off most of the time, as are some of the rocker shaft support heights. The quality of valve work is about on par with Indy. A set of iron Stage Vs I've seen just cant run the numbers, and I think the shop didnt correct everything on them. A set of Stage VI aluminums I know of took an extra $600 in work to correct and equalize the chambers, and then fix everthing else. Pretty bad for a head that could be very good. MP - 5 out of 10, but working on it from what I hear. (of course, those waiting years for a block may disagree)
Mopars are not alone. all aftermarket stuff needs work before bolting on. "Ready to run" or "Just bolt them on" means they will attach to the block. That's it. Most heads should need work. I know many people who run things out of the box. Some are impressed with the results, but I'm sure they could be running better if the stuff was checked first. Not all problems result in damage or a non running condition. All problems lead to shorter lifespan, and less power production. I havent seen really good valve tip patterns out of the box with much. But, in about 70% of the cases I've been able to correct things with a pushrod or rocker adjustment. Many cheaper lines of rocker have problems with QC, and you will get them longer and shorter. I have seen a couple of heads that did need the rocker shaft supports modified to get good geometry because of poor tip alignment accross the whole head. :puke:

Offline gomopar440

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Re: New Heads?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2006 - 06:38:42 AM »
I got a set of Indy 440-SR 295's CNC'd out to the MW size. I haven't been able to complete the engine yet (it's in Pennsylvania and I'm stationed in Puerto Rico) until I address a few issues with the heads. The main problem I ran into is that the rocker shaft pedastals are too wide and bind the rocker arms to the point that some will not even move when the shaft is tightened down. I'm not too pleased about having to re-machine a brand new set of heads when I've already paid an extra $1000 to get it CNC'd. From what I've been hearing about Indy's customer service It's not even worth the headache to deal with them to resolve this. December I get stationed back in the US and I'll be working in a machine shop again. So, I'm just going to wait till then and fix it myself. That way I can make any changes neccisary to get the tip alignment centered up better. That's off center by quite a bit as well... :pullinghair: