Gear Vendors Drama - **UPDATED 3/20/07**

[Carlwalski]

Dimples - You can get it right, just once a week. lol If you get the chance watch one of the videos on the GV site, the management from GV's is driving the car with a stock module and the delay when clicking OD out is real bad. Even GV's say turning off OD perfectly is a true art and doing it every time is impossible. What needs to happen is: You hit OD in say, 2nd it shifts to 2nd-O, you then shift into 3rd and you have to hit the foot switch to kick OD out manually but you also have to wait for the car to go into 3rd and the while trying to calculate the delay of the solenoid build up once the OD button has been pressed. Get it wrong and you're still in 2nd-O when you hit the OD switch you'll kick OD out in 2nd-O and you'll go into 2nd but with twice the rpms (bad). So, as you can see even with silky hands and coordination plus practise of course it is still deemed impossible gear-in-gear-out on a daily basis.


Thanks Superblule!


Rob - Yes, you are right, however there is no splitting gears which I can do now.
I have basically 4 or 5 driving styles.

1) Stock 727
2) 6 gears
3) Manual selection of any given gear/shift up or down.
4) 1, 2, 3 + OD.
5) Autodrive 1st-2nd.

It will be a great gearbox when it is complete, I have no doubt.
We're just going to take some time and patience to have it running properly.


dwbiggs - Yip, I'll be getting a new module once they are made, for free. 
Yeah, I agree, the choice of an extra gear between gears means you have a lot more choice when driving.
For example you could be driving some nice highway in 3rd-O, approach a corner that doesn't quite need to go down to 2nd, shift into 2nd-O (4th). Maintaining your rpms and speed is what this unit is great for.

Dan, your 3.55's will work well but if you were going to get an OD gearbox you may want to make the most of it and get some lower gears, 3.91 is what I have and it's great for my car. Depends I guess on your combo of goodies and what your car is being built for. With your 3.55's and a 28" tyre you'll be doing 2150rpm @ 65mph. 3.55's in OD work out as 2.76 gears, not too shabby huh. Even with 4.10's your rpms @ 65mph are only 2495. Though IMO you wouldn't want too much more than 4.10's using this unit. Splitting gears with a close ratio box that multiplies torque can be difficult and/or over kill. One guy in the UK has the stock unit and has 4.56 gears I think, his first gear ratio is the same as having 11.17 gear ratio in first!!!! 4.10s are "slightly" more human 10.05 in first. My 3.91 gears react like 9.57 gears in first in 1st-Over they react like 7.46, in 2nd - 5.66, in 2nd-Over 4.41 and finally in third being a 1:1 ratio I run like 3.91 (my ratio) then one last click into 3rd-OD and I'm cruising like a car with 3.05 gears.

As you can see the performance factor is amazing! Even in 2nd-Over (4th) you have the pulling power of a car with 4.41 gears! The performance and sound of the motor is tremendous as it goes through 6 full throttle close ratio shifts. You are in each gear ½ the time you are now so the car is not only faster but it also feels and sounds much faster.

Though, with my module as it is and possibly in future I will let the car shift 1-2nd automatically, with 9.57 gears for the first gear IMO it's a waste trying to use that, I'll just let the car do it and I'll shift the rest. But, we'll wait and see what the new one is like once complete...............


 

[1973_Challenger]

NZ, was wondering if you have recieved the new updated Autoshift module from GV? I am instrested in getting the GV and would like to know if they have worked the Autoshift issues out.

[Dave-R]

This was an interesting thread.

I have used the original GV unit for a few years now. I am VERY happy with it. But I too had hassles.

With the original version you either leave it on autoshift which simply turns the OD on when going over 50mph and it switches it off when dropping below 28mph.
Or you manual shift and you switch the OD on and off with a footswitch to split any gear you want.

Going from 1st to 1st-over is always a waste of time. In particular with low axle gears (I use 4.30:1 gears). But splitting the gears keeps the engine rpm right up on the power band which is a very good thing. In particular if your HP peak is narrow.

However I usually just use the GV in manual mode and just use it as a 4th gear which I switch on and off with the trans in "Drive". You get a nice little bit of engine braking when you switch it off due to the low gears. Top speed is about 145mph @ 6500rpm even with these low gears.

The major problem I had was due to the new tailshaft/adaptor. It took a while to figure out what had gone wrong.

The captive circlip that engages the trans output shaft was slightly further back than the stock version. Resulting in all endplay on the output shaft being lost. This forced the overrunning clutch into the back of the trans case. This in turn caused it to cut into the back of the case and also heat up enough to loosen. I was lucky the overrunning clutch did not fail completely. BOOM!
However the metal that sheared off the case made a right mess inside the trans. The filter was very clogged too.

So if you fit a GV unit I strongly suggest you take the trans apart and check your output shaft endplay AFTER you have fitted the new tailshaft.
I did inform GV of this problem at the time but heard nothing back.

Dispite this I still feel fitting the GV unit was one of the best things I have EVER done to the car.

[dwbiggs]

I too would like to hear about the autoshift!

Has anyone run at the track with one of these shifting manually...or is it too difficult?  I would think with less drop off between gears that you could run faster times couldn't you...if you could shift efficiently.

[Dave-R]

I too would like to hear about the autoshift!

Has anyone run at the track with one of these shifting manually...or is it too difficult?  I would think with less drop off between gears that you could run faster times couldn't you...if you could shift efficiently.

Yes. It is not hard to do after a bit of practice (but a bit scary the first time). As I mentioned you don't bother with 1st over. There is no real advantage to do that.

I damaged my engine by making a mistake the last time. Like a fool I was wearing heavy shoes and as I got my foot ready to switch the OD off after changing up I accidently switched it off while at 6000rpm in second gear.
The result was two lost pushrods, two damaged rockers and zero oil pressure. Plus i had to drive home 250 miles the next day.
I did manage to fix it at the track but found I had other issues with the engine when I got home. So that was that.

When the car gets back on the road this year (hopefully) I have fitted a solid lifter cam (about the same spec of the hydraulic I was using). This should make the HP curve fatter so there is less advantage to splitting the shifts. Also no worries about lifter pump up and I will check the lash every time I get to a track. I will feel a lot more confident like that but I think I will only use the OD as a forth gear now which I might just need with the 4.30 gears I use.

[Carlwalski]

I too would like to hear about the autoshift!

If you read the thread or do a quick search you'll see what I think and how the autoshift works. It's great when it works but GV haven't got it sorted yet. I've been in touch with the president (Rick Johnson) so now he's involved it's pretty much a top priority, not just for customer service and their name but they also want to see what's wrong with it, and, as most will know, we're the guinea pig for it, unfortunately. 

That's the main reason I went with the autoshift, to eliminate any mishaps between gears. The last thing I want to do to the #'s engine is send it into the rpm teens. With the autoshift you shift gear using the shifter and it kicks OD out for you automatically. No lag or "searching" as-in the standard unit. That's why they built the autoshift to eliminate the bad delay.

[dwbiggs]

It's great when it works but GV haven't got it sorted yet.

Thanks for the update...whats taking so long...wouldn't think it to be rocket science.  I am patiently awaiting for this to come out...debating on getting a GV or a Kiesler AT.  Hope it turns out well...and I hope you got a Christmas card from GV after all the trouble thay have put you through.

[Carlwalski]

Thanks for the update...whats taking so long...wouldn't think it to be rocket science.  I am patiently awaiting for this to come out...debating on getting a GV or a Kiesler AT.  Hope it turns out well...and I hope you got a Christmas card from GV after all the trouble thay have put you through.

Thanks......nope, no Christmas card. 

It's not rocket science but something in their box isn't working right. It's reading the rpms incorrectly and it isn't an easy fix. It is totally out of our hands and is on the GVs tech team to sort out the electric module issues.

[Carlwalski]

Well, we got an email from Rick Johnson, the President of Gear Vendors about 3-4 months ago.
He suggested we try a Petrnoix box to fix the modules delays and kicking OD out in final gear.

This was my email response after we tried the box:


Rick,
 
 
We finally got around to fitting the Petronix box as suggested.
And, as we thought, nothing at all changed, yet again, just more labour costs......
 
I've had it with the whole system and if I could do it again would go a A518 or better still, Keisler any day. It's inconsistent, sloppy, harsh jolting shifts (more than it should be) and the delay depends on how "it" feels that day, and so on.
 
It is definitely not what I paid for and I've had a tonne of interest on the US Mopar forums about it. Quite frankly, I've told them to stay away from it and they're all angry/upset with how the whole thing has played out. Why? $10,000 USD (receipts to prove it) in labour and close to 2 years on & off, back & forth and still no results.
 
We've tried everything, worked with your tech guys but the electronic system in it is basically, crap.
Sorry, but it's true. It's the worst mod I have ever put into any of my cars by a big margin.
 
My restoration team said some rather "colorful" language about the whole thing. They felt sorry for me having to bear the brunt of the chargers for your errors and poor product. They said if it were their car, they'd be on the phone telling you to come done and fix the mess (but not in such polite terms).
 
But, I'll leave it as is. Splitting the gears is a total waste of time, slower than stock. The OD barely works, I have to flick a switch to hold it in OD and when I come down to less then 20mph flick it off with a custom button on the console. Not what I paid for, not what I like....very, very, disappointed indeed. If you guys came to the party and said,  Yes, we realise it's not what we "promised" miles off in fact, but we will help fund the mess and at least get it working decently if not properly or better yet, take it away and give me a full refund on the system, then, I'd be at least satisfied and could move on from this never ending nightmare.
 
It's really a small price to pay for a "big" company like Gear Vendors. A refund, it's not in your warranty but neither was how it doesn't work in your blurbs about the system. Luckily I'm not in the US or else I'd have a rather strong case against you guys. Hope you will at least honour your word about buying the petronix box back off me. It's in as new condition and in it's original box.
 
 
Carl


As the email states, it is complete & utter rubbish. I've tried my heart out to "hear" the system through and enjoy it but it is utter crap. As I said, splitting gears is a waste of time, the delay and searching is shocking....in stock form, the 727 would flat out leave it for dead. It's nothing more than a gimmick. I soooo wish I converted to manual and got the Keisler instead. Now, I'm not someone with a goal of hurting a companies reputation, far from it, BUT, when you've been through what I have, I feel I have every right to warn others of their lack of help and poor products. The email may be blunt but it's like the 30th+ email to these guys over the last two years and I still have a slushbox not worthy of the bin.

You've been warned: THE GEAR VENDOR AUTOSHIFT SEQUENCER IS PLAIN SHlT.

I have not used the "stock" system where OD is manually taken out but this should work better as there is no automatic module to stuff things up. However, those systems still have a bad delay between gears and the searching is an ugly design fault of the GV type transmissions and is the soul reason they designed this new and "improved" autoshift sequencer.

They're working on a new module to fix the fault but this is some months/years away, I'm first on the list supposedly but I could care less and will leave it as is. If I get a refund a Keisler would probably be in the works, but, I doubt very much they will give me a single penny back. This is a rant and and I'm almost done.......I use to love my autos for straight line speed but after riding in their slush jolt box only a manual will do from here on in. Pick gears when you want.

This update is for those who were going to buy one and were waiting for me to see how things went. Like I said, you've been warned. I'd hate for anyone else to go through this shlt, I honestly would. If not for you, do it for me, don't give these scum you're hard earned.


Thanks for listening,
Carl
NZ440R/T

[chevyconvert]

That's a major bummer.
I remember in the beginning you were so fired up about this GV that if you would have been happy with the way it worked, you would have been a great company spokesman.
Hopefully, there will be a silver lining for you in the end.

And ... about the 4-spd... ...I agree

[Topcat]

Carl, this company is outright neglecting the situation. If word about this gets to SEMA, they will be sweatin bullets. I recommend you go in that direction on your dissapointment and watch them do a 180 then.

I would think that SEMA would be concerned about having a vendor with a faulty product being promoted at their shows.

[Carlwalski]

There is so much I can do from here though....I'm thinking  about seeing a local lawyer (a good one lol) to see where I stand. If I were in American you could beat my house I'd be in their face and/or in court. We have a very strong case against them. Topcat, you nailed it to mate, they are neglecting the situation, couldn't have said it better myself. He sent me an email today with a "quick checklist, this is what it read:

Hi Again Carl - As I mentioned in the email prior to your purchase of the Petronix - If you remove our tach lead - your control box should do everything correctly (just with a one second delay on every function) Does it?  I am confused why you are saying you still have this on switch you put on the box when I have already given this info.  We should be able to get to the bottom of this problem very easily with someone at the car to move the shifter - the key on engine not running>
A) Turn on the overdrive (it should delay one second and then the green light goes on)
B) Move the shifter to reverse - (green light should go off - again engine is not running so it is just like we took off the tach lead -every action will be delay one second)
C) put the shifter in low
D) turn on the overdrive
E) move shifter to second - overdrive light should go off
F) turn the overdrive back on
G) move shifter to 3rd - overdrive light should go off
H) turn on overdrive
I) move shifter to reverse - overdrive light should go off.
 
Do this simple check and call me - remember this is all with the engine off - just the key on.
Yes - of course I will buy the pertronix from you but leave it in the car until we get on the phone (unless you already removed it) regardless get me on the phone and do the above checklist.  RJ

WE HAVE TRIED ALL THIS LAST YEAR AND NOTHING!!! He simply doesn't get it, IT DOESN'T WORK.
I can't be any simpler than that, it doesn't work. He and GVs are trying to get around the whole thing by "making it out" that we can't get it going. My mechanics are right up there with the best of them, he must think anyone outside the US is thick or something or that we're a small country so small =  dumb?!?!?!

Not sure what to do but I know I'm very unhappy about the whole thing. 

Thanks for the support, this post is more a warning than anything else.

[moper]

I've watched this as it developed. I like GV as a simple add on OD unit. Not a gear splitter. I see no wa yo electronically engage and disengage the unit while trying to sync with a hydraulicly controlled system. That's why the manufacturers have gone to full electronic controls. Back a few pages in this post I asked about how they tried to do it. It didnt seem doable then, nad the results prove it. It's too bad they just cant make a valve body that could engage or disengage based ont eh same pressures the shifts are controlled by. Seems a better way to attempt it. IMO, you are the model of a great customer trying to make the best of a situation. If I were GV, I would be looking at buying the whole mess back.

[Carlwalski]

Thanks Moper. It is basically pretty easy what needs to be done. We've told them what to do and how to fix it yet they just won't listen for some reason. They insist we try there simple tests which we've done time and time again with the same results, nothing. All they need to do is have the system read to cut out under 20mph in final gear, that's it, simple. Once the car hits 19.99mph the OD drops out. At present it drops out at any speed, any time. As for splitting gears, both systems are sloppy IMO. As much as owners "try" to talk them up they search and hone for the next gear and even Gear Vendors themselves admit hitting a perfect shift every gear is truly impossible. Mainly due to the fact that if the user messes up, it's there engine and trans in the rear view. A risk not many want to take.

I've basically spent $10K for an OD gear that needs a button to stay on then a click to off to turn it off. I can run 3.91s and cruise like 3.05s but shlt, for $10K, I could have got a Keisler, some beers and a project car...... A518 is probably the best way for anyone out there looking for simple, non-module BS system that works, great launch, great cruise, simple install. As I said and you mentioned the splitting gears is nothing more than a gimmick, but, I can't blame myself for that, how was I to know they were still making it? As a customer I should be getting what I paid for, not helping design the d**n thing at my expense.

The more I think about it the more I get angry. 

[Pistol Gripper]

NZ,

Let me know if / when you pull that POS out and I'll send you a replacement top plate for your console.  This has been a big advertisement for how not to treat a customer.

P.G.