Author Topic: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07 (Read 35154 times)

Dave-R · « **Reply #90 on:** June 17, 2007 - 09:39:00 AM »

I believe it says on the ID tag (in small print) that it is the Laythingy De Normanville design assembled under licence for GKN Driveline, Birmingham UK.

(d**n! The board word Censor will not let me print the company name. Substitute "thingy" to a 4 letter word meaning a male chicken.)

That is from memory so check the tag on your unit to confirm?

The UK versions come up on ebay from time to time approx �100. They were used in Volvos, Triumph cars and even Ford Transit vans.

This company took over all of Laythingys tooling and they can sell you a front so that the box can be mounted independently of the gearbox to just about anything.

You end up with two prop shafts one from box to unit and one from unit to diff.

http://www.overdrive-repairs.co.uk/about_us.html (also contains a history of the unit)

Also check this page

http://www.overdrive-repairs.co.uk/services.html

Universal unit for approx $1400

Dave

choper · « **Reply #91 on:** June 17, 2007 - 12:06:24 PM »

Very interesting ................... You learn something everyday !

I did find a quote that said:

The vast majority of overdrives in European cars were manufactured by an English company called Laycock de Normanville, which is now defunct though an uprated hp version of this product is produced in the U.S. by Gear Vendors, de Normanville overdrives were found in vehicles manufactured by Ford, British Leyland, Jaguar, Rootes and Volvo to name but a few. Another British company, the former aircraft builder Fairey, built a successful all-mechanical unit for the Land Rover, which is still in production in America today.

Is the GV unit uprated or the same unit as the British item?

Perhaps there is a British controller already in existence ............ I will try to contact Overdrive Repair Services and ask.

Regards

Dave-R · « **Reply #92 on:** June 17, 2007 - 01:42:03 PM »

This is what I know.
A mate of mine was waiting on an order and the secretary let slip on the 'phone that they were awaiting a shipment of overdrives from the UK.

Now. I have a feeling they are shipped dissembled, possibly because of US import restrictions or maybe tax reasons? Once at Gear Vendors they are assembled.

I am not aware of any difference between my GV unit and any other UK Laythingy unit.

Here is a photo of the id tag as it sounds as if you can't get at it for some reason to see yourself.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #93 on:** June 18, 2007 - 01:13:10 AM »

Choper - What my mechanic did was basically what the B&M product would try and do, I think? Not sure. It's in the module itself, the electronics which are on GVs to fix. They are sending me out a new module as we speak. This box was prepared whilst also a mph redesign was being carried out. The mph feature will be more compatible over a large range of ignitions systems. This is much the same problem that exists today with computer control EFI systems (one of being able to accurately take a dirty tach signal and rely on it for decisions).

They say this should fix my cars problem and blamed it on using stock parts which they said is not giving the module or the AS GV unit enough to run off. Like giving Bully Bunter 1 piece of cake, it won't get anywhere. I should know in the next couple of weeks if it's sorted. To tell you the truth.......why waste money on an Auto? If you're keen on an auto get a A518 built be a pro, no mucking around no gimmick splits or delays just 4 gears. Daves one above might be OK for you, no major electronics and from what I've heard no errors. Still bad delays going in and out of OD, it's just the way it works and as I've said time and time before the sole reason they're building this new unit to rid them of the bad delays and sloppy shifts. Or, better yet, let your left foot do the driving and get a manual. That's what I'd do now looking back but GVs advertising and BS blinded me. My fault but how was I to know.

To sum up this thread - Get a stick shift.

choper · « **Reply #94 on:** June 18, 2007 - 01:56:58 AM »

Quote from: NZ440R/T on June 18, 2007 - 01:13:10 AM

Choper - What my mechanic did was basically what the B&M product would do, I think? Not sure. GV are sending me out a new module as we speak. This new module was prepared whilst a mph redesign was being carried out. The mph feature will be more compatible over a large range of ignitions systems. They say this should fix my cars problem and blamed it on using stock parts which they said is not giving the module or the AS GV unit enough to run off. I should know in the next couple of weeks if it's sorted.

To tell you the truth.......why waste money on an Auto? If you're keen on an auto get a A518 built be a pro, no mucking around no gimmick splits or delays just 4 gears.

Hi Carl

Great to hear that GV are getting a new unit out to you ...... please let us know how you get on.

I am committed to using the GV overdrive .... I have spent the money and it is sitting in its box waiting to be fitted. What with shipping from the USA etc I also have spent quite a lot of cash to date! ...... OK I could try and sell the GV before trying it, but that seems to be poring money down the drain.

My car is a road car and I don�t want a stick shift. I did look at the A518 but it is at the maximum end of its power handling capabilities ...... It would therefore have to have high power build and even then it is a manual (not electric) old style box. The "Keisler PerfectFit� 4-Speed Automatic Overdrive Transmission" LOOKS on paper like an ideal choice, but do I ditch the GV unit before trying it when a new autoshift unit is coming out at any time? �� I don�t thinks so, Please keep us posted

Regards

James

Dave-R · « **Reply #95 on:** June 18, 2007 - 02:06:42 AM »

I don't have any shift delay in my unit Carl.?? Hit the switch and it bangs in there like a good'un. I have Driven an MG with the same or similar unit (factory fitted) and that was the same. No problem.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #96 on:** June 18, 2007 - 04:15:30 AM »

Well from the videos of you driving your car Dave the delay is there and it's the way the system works. The solenoid pressure build up is just part and parcel but it isn't that delay I'm talking about. Yes you can time them to shift at the right time, just takes a little practice but there is always that honing/searching sound kicking out of OD. Shift from 2nd-O into 3rd then it "pauses" then it kicks OD out and sounds like two shifts at once. Messy IMO.

GVs head manager or creator states this himself (Rick Johnson) saying all stock units do this and once again the sole reason these new units are being made. Go to the last video link "Hotrodz" and select what ever system you have (dail up etc). http://www.gearvendors.com/videoclips.html it's at about 6:30 where he goes for a drive and you can hear it easily the honing/searching sound when taking OD off, this guy drives them for a living too and that's how "smooth" he is.

Best of luck with yours Choper. I tried and tried and tried and tried to love mine but it's a pile of crap IMO. I only use OD and don't worry about splitting gears. I'll see how this new module works but we've been doing the R&D with these guys the last few years with no luck so as usual I'm not holding my breath. I'm not trying to shoot this product down, read my threads, emails, you name it, when you've been through what I have with this, you'd understand.

The stock unit is fine if you don't mind the out-shift delay just if you can stay away from the new autoshift units and /or make sure you get the new, new, modules. But, it's a lot of coin for one extra gear $4,250 USD for a OD is what I got, I'd rather have an A518 for half the price and no electronic mess or a Keisler manual myself.

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #97 on:** June 18, 2007 - 05:04:59 AM »

When you look at a 518 and a GV overdrive unit, they are pretty much the same thing. Adding an extra gear to a 727. If I was trying to split gears in the 518 to get an automatic 6 - speed, the ratios would be so close that it would be shifting too fast between gears. I have a 518 in my Grand Cherokee now and with it's lock-up converter I've counted 5 distinct "shift" thuds, with the lockup converter being the last one. I've also raced 727 manual valve trannies and never wished that I had double the gears to keep the engine at a certain rpm. The torque converter selection handled the gear spread. Every shift still takes away a little time no matter how your valve body is setup.

So Carl, I think by you trying to get 1st, 1st OD, 2nd, 2ndOD, 3rd, 3rdOD, with a kickdown band in there adding to the computer's confusion, you'll feel lots of hesiitation. If you would use the GV unit just like the 518, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, OD; I think you would have been happy with it long ago.

Rob

choper · « **Reply #98 on:** June 18, 2007 - 05:05:51 AM »

Quote from: NZ440R/T on June 18, 2007 - 04:15:30 AM

Best of luck with yours Choper. I tried and tried and tried and tried to love mine but it's a pile of crap IMO. I only use OD and don't worry about splitting gears. I'll see how this new module works but we've been doing the R&D with these guys the last few years with no luck so as usual I'm not holding my breath. I'm not trying to shoot this product down, read my threads, emails, you name it, when you've been through what I have with this, you'd understand.

The stock unit is fine if you don't mind the out-shift delay just if you can stay away from the new autoshift units and /or make sure you get the new, new, modules. But, it's a lot of coin for one extra gear $4,250 USD for a OD is what I got, I'd rather have an A518 for half the price and no electronic mess or a Keisler manual myself.

I do understand what you are saying ............... A real pain in the butt. Cant find one.

My problem is I have the new unit and what to do ? ....................... I think I will go with 3 gears + OD and no more cost.

But - If I fit it I will have that big question "what if" ! If you get tired of the "new, new, module" let me know ................ maybe I can pick up where you left off !!! Ice pack at the ready !

Regarding Keisler ........... was that "electronic mess of a Keisler" AUTO ?

Thanks again

James

PS .......... Do/Did GV's make a brochure for the autoshift?

Dave-R · « **Reply #99 on:** June 18, 2007 - 06:22:11 AM »

Quote from: NZ440R/T on June 18, 2007 - 04:15:30 AM

Well from the videos of you driving your car Dave the delay is there and it's the way the system works.

No mate. You have it wrong. What you are hearing is me splitting the gears where you have to shift and then drop out of OD.

I don't bother with that any more.

The unit itself shifts instantly in or out as fast as the electrical solenoid. And that is fast.

I wish you would get this gear splitting fixation out of your head Carl. With low gears (4.30:1), and a broad power band like mine it is pointless splitting the gears. You only need to do that if you have a narrow power band or "gay" high gears in your axle.

Shifting the gears normally and engaging/disengaging the OD as and when you want is the best/easiest way to use it on the street and, in most cases, on the track.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #100 on:** June 18, 2007 - 05:39:01 PM »

OK Dave, your correct. GVs is wrong. The honing/"splitting" gears is what I mean, listen to any video with someone who has GVs and that shift-pause-dropout will always be there. I have one in my car and would love to talk it up but I accepted that it just doesn't work. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue about your car, I'm glad you like it, well done.

The fixation is gone Dave, Choper asked, I answered - end of story. It was something I wanted to work as it was advertised to work, I'm not one to lie on my stomach and take a pounding so took this matter up with GVs and they're still trying to fix it with the help of my guys from R&D. We should have it sorted, once it works I'll just leave it and use the OD. I learnt my lesson and prefer the Manual kits but didn't want to swap the numbers matching transmission out.

On to the next project now, no electronics to go wrong and 3 pedals. Much better and less "gay".

Choper - here is the only article to date about the Autoshift sequencer unit. As you can see they state the "honing" searching sound When kicking OD out in the stock unit hence the reason it was time to improve.

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #101 on:** June 18, 2007 - 08:19:46 PM »

Carl,
I still say try an MSD unit for your spark and hook it's tach output to the sequencer. If your guy hasn't tried that yet you're spinning your wheels. Also watch out for not having the correct polarity on your distributor pickup going to the MSD. Having the wires reversed affects the timing a great deal. Like I said before, the mopar ECU tach signal is different from a Ford and GM signal, when it comes to my EFI computers.

Rob

Carlwalski · « **Reply #102 on:** June 18, 2007 - 10:45:42 PM »

Don't worry Rob we've tried it. GVs are quite impressed with how good my guys are. It's not as "simple" as it sounds my friend, trust me.

GVs are on to the new box and it's something they needed to do, not my guys, there fault - they fix. My shop have (like any good shop) plenty of cars needing work and projects to build so they can't afford to create new hardware for some company that can't do it themselves, we spent too long on it as is and I said to leave it, I don't want to keep paying for GVs R&D, get real GVs! But, thanks for the concern.

choper · « **Reply #103 on:** June 19, 2007 - 12:41:42 AM »

Quote from: NZ440R/T on June 18, 2007 - 05:39:01 PM

Choper asked, I answered - here is the only article to date about the Autoshift sequencer unit.

Thanks Carl

As I said before please keep us posted as things progress.

ShelbyDogg · « **Reply #104 on:** June 19, 2007 - 05:05:57 AM »

Good to know Carl. And reading that sales piece about the Autoshift Sequencer; tells me that they are selling something, that does work as advertised. Maybe the next box will fix it. I hope you get some kind of compensation back from them. (good luck with that)

Author Topic: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07 (Read 35154 times)

Dave-R

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

choper

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Dave-R

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Carlwalski

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

choper

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Dave-R

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Carlwalski

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

ShelbyDogg

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

choper

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Dave-R

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Carlwalski

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

ShelbyDogg

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Carlwalski

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

choper

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

ShelbyDogg

Re: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07

Author Topic: Gear Vendors Drama - **UPDATED 3/20/07** (Read 35154 times)

Author Topic: Gear Vendors Drama - UPDATED 3/20/07 (Read 35154 times)